# Breaking Bad 5.16 "Felina" 9/29/13 SERIES FINALE **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 24, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591 "2013-09-24T17:31:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/481 "2013-09-30T19:17:39Z")
> [@Soylent\_Juicy](#): > > I took Walt falling on Jesse to save him from the machine-gun fire as simply his father instinct kicking in. Once he saw how they had enslaved Jesse to cook for them - rather than Jesse being a willing participant - and how utterly broken Jesse was Walt felt that paternal instinct again and just did what any good father would do - save his “son”. As I’ve said earlier, I tend to agree with those who see Walt’s three “sons” (Flynn, Jesse and Todd) as reflections of different sides of Walt. It’s interesting to see the endings they got. The happy ending for Flynn, the son of Walter White (he’ll get the money), the just desserts (trip to Belize) for Todd, the son of Heisenberg. The middle son is Jesse, who is torn between good and evil. Walt saves his life in the end, but his future is still up for grabs. Sure, he escaped from purgatory, but he’s only got that car, no money, and no friends or family except Badger and Skinny Pete. On top of that, he still has a shitload to answer for to the cops if they catch up with him, and no marketable skills beyond cooking meth (well, and some woodworking). We don’t know where he’ll go, or even really what kind of person he is at this point. The hope is that he’ll apply himself on the side of good this time, but can we entirely rule out a return to a life of crime? ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/482 "2013-09-30T19:19:25Z")
[10.3 million viewers last night.](http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/breaking-bad-finale-sets-ratings-records-with-more-than-10-million-viewers#~oiXhSCFT8OKInh) Triple last season’s finale. Most surprising thing to me is that Low Winter Sun kept 4.4M of those. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/483 "2013-09-30T19:20:53Z")
> [@Subterraneanus](#): > > Free will is not a Greek notion. Accepting one’s fate is. > > I’m not suggesting this is purely Grecian stuff–it’s more variegated than that–but that when discussing Grecian aesthetics we need to avoid the temptation to translate them into something else. Better to speak the original “language” than to mangle it with translation, IMO. Yes - I get that I am mangling the language and concepts. Sorry. It’s just that the Classical Greek Tragedy…“framework”/arc has been so durable in our history. Starting there seems like a good place to contemplate BB. You state "I’m not suggesting this is purely Grecian stuff – it’s more variegated than that…how? And are the differences simply practical changes or is there insight to be gained thinking about them? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/484 "2013-09-30T19:29:14Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > He looked like how he did in the beginning- full hair, green shirt, chinos. I came in here to mention that - my wife noticed it immediately. Very nice full circle. > [@WordMan](#): > > Badfinger! “What are we, chopped liver?” -Eiffel 65 ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/485 "2013-09-30T19:30:57Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I agree with all of that - within Walt’s world, those are his beliefs. > > My question is, stepping back: is there an intentional “moral arc” to the story, and if so: > > - What is it? > - Is it in line with a Classical Greek Tragedy moral arc? If so, how? > - If it is NOT in line with a CGT moral arc, then what’s different and what does that tell us about Gilligan’s intent and/or about ourselves? > …bitch 😉 (sorry, just being a fanboy idiot…) Mmmm, those questions are tasty, especially the last. I must sleep/work/drink before I think I can digest anything near an answer. Hopefully I’ll get consultation from my better half (who’s much better at interpretation than I), before I reply. ETA: And while I’m completely happy with Badfinger for the closer, I would have liked the Chocolate Watchband’s version of _It’s All Over Now, Baby Blue_. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/486 "2013-09-30T19:30:57Z")
> [@Alice\_The\_Goon](#): > > One question- in the beginning, was there really a mole in the DEA, and did we ever find out who it was? I assume it was Gustavo Fring, who had ingratiated himself with the DEA office. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/487 "2013-09-30T19:31:31Z")
What was interesting about the robot gun was the activation also popped open the trunk lid. Well, that’s nice and all for cinematically showing it firing, but I also like to think Walt did that intentionally to ventilate and cool the gun. It might have also worked as a last-ditch failsafe if the Nazis did ask to check the trunk. He could say the car is stolen and the trunk “sticks” or the lock is broken. He could even make a show of trying the key and it doesn’t open. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/488 "2013-09-30T19:31:33Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Yes - I get that I am mangling the language and concepts. Sorry. > > It’s just that the Classical Greek Tragedy…“framework”/arc has been so durable in our history. Starting there seems like a good place to contemplate BB. > > You state "I’m not suggesting this is purely Grecian stuff – it’s more variegated than that…how? And are the differences simply practical changes or is there insight to be gained thinking about them? If we took the best passages from this thread we could assemble a satisfying first essay on the various narrative strands that are so masterfully interwoven in this show. I need to think/feel more about it before committing myself to an interpretation. I just want to exercise caution in discussing different aesthetic worlds, even when they are combined into something larger. We can discuss the various elements of BB’s aesthetic, and how they combine (chemistry, bitch!), but we still need to grasp the elements as elements, as it were. Then we can explore the … get ready for it … Transformation! Class dismissed. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/489 "2013-09-30T19:37:02Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Mmmm, those questions are tasty, especially the last. I know, right? Wracking my brains… > [@](#): > > ETA: And while I’m completely happy with Badfinger for the closer, I would have liked the Chocolate Watchband’s version of _It’s All Over Now, Baby Blue_. 😃 Given what I assume is an inability to get the rights to the Dylan song of the same name quoted above (totally would’ve worked), the Badfinger song is great, has great, related lyrics, has the Pulp Fiction Pop Juxtaposition Factor™, and unfortunately the gravity of Badfinger’s history, where two principles killed themselves as the band flamed out in many ways. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/490 "2013-09-30T19:38:58Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > (well, and some woodworking). When they showed up carving that box at the beginning of the show I thought I remembered something from season 1 about him making a box? Did I make that up or was that callback? Did Walt ask him about something he really focused on to try to get him to stop screwing around in the RV? Also, the cinematography was so different in that scene I skipped right past it at first thinking it was a commercial. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/491 "2013-09-30T19:39:14Z")
I think the fly in the ointment will be Flynn. There is no way he won’t realize what is going on. And Skyler will also realize that Walt lied to her about being out of money. Question: Did Lydia drink the tea before Walt approached the table? ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/492 "2013-09-30T19:39:51Z")
> [@Subterraneanus](#): > > If we took the best passages from this thread we could assemble a satisfying first essay on the various narrative strands that are so masterfully interwoven in this show. Shit, if you were committed enough to go through all the SDMB threads for each episode I’m convinced there’s more than enough for a masters thesis in Communications just waiting to be composed, likely several papers. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/493 "2013-09-30T19:40:32Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > I’m evaluating the show based on what Walt deserves because Walt’s downfall due to his arrogance and price and has been in the making since nearly the beginning. What we got was a simple ending to a complicated story. You have it backwards. Death simplifies. But if you consider that the Whites’ lives will go on without Walt it seems a lot less simple. > [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > And Marley, he “won” because in his own words “he felt alive.” He got to live out this crime lord life, leave his family a ton of money, take out a bunch of scumbags, and not let cancer take him. He checked out on his own terms. He didn’t deserve a sliver of redemption at the end or any peace of mind. He told her felt alive when he was making meth as Heisenberg, and by the time he says those words that life is far in the past. During this episode he was trying to settle some final scores so he could die in peace. He did that, but like I keep saying, he was doing that while he was aware of what he’d given up and why he’d given it all up. That’s not such a victory. He did get to live out his Scarface movie, it just cost him everything else- first and foremost his family, which was why he said he was doing all of this in the first place. Now that he’s gone Skyler’s not going to have much of a life compared to what they used to have. Flynn and Holly will spend their lives thinking their father was a monster. If Flynn ever gets Walt’s money and he decides to keep it, Skyler won’t see much of it. Flynn actually might hate him more for putting him in this position, which is something Walt did to _everyone_ throughout the series. He wiped out all the good parts of himself so he could be remembered as Heisenberg. To do the Shakespeare thing one more time, “The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interred with their bones.” That’s Walt. Did Walt deserve any kind of peace or satisfaction? No. So? I didn’t watch the show to see a fictional character get punished. What’s the point of that? ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/494 "2013-09-30T19:42:16Z")
> [@Subterraneanus](#): > > If we took the best passages from this thread we could assemble a satisfying first essay on the various narrative strands that are so masterfully interwoven in this show. I need to think/feel more about it before committing myself to an interpretation. I just want to exercise caution in discussing different aesthetic worlds, even when they are combined into something larger. We can discuss the various elements of BB’s aesthetic, and how they combine (chemistry, bitch!), but we still need to grasp the elements as elements, as it were. Then we can explore the … get ready for it … Transformation! > > Class dismissed. 😉 When are Teacher’s Hours? 😉 Yeah - all that makes sense. So the vehicle of closed-arc TV show may or may not map to the arc of a Classical Greek Tragedy? It may be informed by a CGT but using those elements for its own objectives? Is that what you’re saying? Hmm, do I agree with that? Gotta think about that. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/495 "2013-09-30T19:43:02Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > I think the fly in the ointment will be Flynn. There is no way he won’t realize what is going on. And Skyler will also realize that Walt lied to her about being out of money. The song is over. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/496 "2013-09-30T19:44:04Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > When are Teacher’s Hours? 😉 > > Yeah - all that makes sense. So the vehicle of closed-arc TV show may or may not map to the arc of a Classical Greek Tragedy? It may be informed by a CGT but using those elements for its own objectives? Is that what you’re saying? > > Hmm, do I agree with that? Gotta think about that. Yes, and, yes, you do agree, Jesse. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/497 "2013-09-30T19:46:16Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Question: Did Lydia drink the tea before Walt approached the table? I don’t remember and I wanted to rewatch that scene to see if he put the ricin in the stevia or in the tea since that makes a difference. If he put it in the Stevia she was dead before she even got there, so was everyone else involved, he just needed a way to get to the nazis. If he put it in the tea he may have actually been trying to strike up a deal with Lydia and/or the nazis or at the very least been trying to come up with some cash. I’m wondering if his sin-methlymine method was for real or not. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/498 "2013-09-30T19:46:17Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > [10.3 million viewers last night.](http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/breaking-bad-finale-sets-ratings-records-with-more-than-10-million-viewers#~oiXhSCFT8OKInh) Triple last season’s finale. > > Most surprising thing to me is that Low Winter Sun kept 4.4M of those. SNL took a nice little dig at LWS. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/499 "2013-09-30T19:50:32Z")
Is it odd that Walt never acknowledged the personal and societal damage done by meth? Scientists who split the atom at least considered the good and bad results of their work, but did Walt? He took pride in putting out a quality product, but he didn’t go past “Well, at least my product isn’t killing people because of impurities.” ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/500 "2013-09-30T19:51:18Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > It’s just that the Classical Greek Tragedy…“framework”/arc has been so durable in our history. Starting there seems like a good place to contemplate BB. Agreed. I need to sleep/think a bit as well. I’ll absolutely get back to this after some pondering. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591.md?page=26)