# Breaking Bad 5.16 "Felina" 9/29/13 SERIES FINALE **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 24, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591 "2013-09-24T17:31:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/721 "2013-10-02T17:09:36Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > It’s interesting reading those five alternative endings to find out that they didn’t actually have the ending plotted out when they put the M60 in Walt’s trunk to start the season. In the podcast they note that one of their best methods for getting them out of trouble when they’ve written themselves into a corner is to go back and look at what they’ve already done/filmed - ‘mining our own history’ as Vince said, I think. Viewers have been looking at all these little clues as ‘foreshadowing’ - ‘oooh, cool - they planted that there, planning on using it five episodes later’ - when actually it’s the other way around; it looks planned but actually they just went back to something in a previous episode, said, ‘hey - let’s use that’ and ran with it. So the ‘foreshadowing’ stuff sometimes becomes self-fulfilling, particularly since Vince definitely is a card-carrying member of the Chekhov’s Gun Club (if you show a gun in scene one, it better be used to shoot someone by scene 3). Happy ending or not? Good question. Walt is dying totally, utterly alone. He’s spent the last 4-5 months in complete isolation. Didn’t even get to say goodbye to Flynn…contrast that to how he said he wanted to die during the ‘talking pillow’ scene. On the other hand, Walt got a moment of…well, not forgiveness but maybe understanding with Skyler? Surely she would have just called in the cops standing outside otherwise, right? Instead she gives him a few moments with Holly. He is reasonably confident that Flynn will get the money from G&E. He killed Lydia and the Nazi Bad Guys, thus wiping out the blue meth empire. He set Jesse free. And he died in the arms of his ‘true love’ - a meth lab. I think Walt would consider it a good ending. As a father to a beautiful little 1yr old girl, I couldn’t help but get choked up at Walt’s final scene with Holly…but I still say that the saddest scene in the episode - hell, maybe the entire series - was Jesse’s crazed, maniacal laugh as he sped out of the compound. He’s been physically emotionally and psychologically fucked six ways to Sunday for the past two years, he’s ‘free’ but not in a great place. I dearly would have loved to see him some years later maybe doing some woodworking with Brock… ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/722 "2013-10-02T17:16:49Z")
I was imagining Jesse some years later as a science teacher, teaching kids about the power of magnets. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/723 "2013-10-02T17:18:16Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > I very much like that. There really is something ghost-like about Walt in this episode, with the way he’s able to just walk right in to Casa Gray Matter, and then Skyler’s house. And the way he weakly shuffles around when he walks and the way he “appears” in Skyler’s kitchen after she hangs up the phone. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/724 "2013-10-02T17:18:37Z")
I know Jesse is sympathetic but I just can’t shake this feeling… I imagine a world where Jesse doesn’t plan on killing the drug dealers so Walt has to. The conflict with Gus largely goes away. I imagine a world where Jesse doesn’t throw bundles of cash out the window. He never gets busted and doesn’t need to disappear. I imagine a world where Jesse doesn’t break into Walters’s house to burn it down. He never gets involved with Hank, Hank and Gomie don’t get killed, Jessie doesn’t get taken as a cook-slave, Walter doesn’t have to disappear… Jesse is his own worst enemy and his actions are just as destructive as Walt’s on some level. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/725 "2013-10-02T17:36:09Z")
Did Walt tell the Schwarz’s to give the money to Walt Jr or to his kids? ---
**Author:** ![Latimera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/latimera/32/497_2.png) [@Latimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latimera)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/726 "2013-10-02T17:43:12Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > …I very much like that. There really is something ghost-like about Walt in this episode, with the way he’s able to just walk right in to Casa Gray Matter, and then Skyler’s house. This is really interesting. I’m sure it wasn’t planned that way, but the episode could be viewed as having Walt die in the snow covered car in NH, then his ghost wrapping up loose ends before he can finally die. Neat. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/727 "2013-10-02T17:44:27Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > On the other hand, Walt got a moment of…well, not forgiveness but maybe understanding with Skyler? That works for me. He was finally honest with her and himself, and I think that was a tremendous relief for them both- and for her in particular. (There was an echo of that when he told Jesse “I want this” at the end. Remember how Jesse begged him to be straight with him?) And I think there was a tiny spark of the old Walt, the guy she really loved before all this, when he leaned forward and said “I was _good_ at it.” They were both fantastic in that scene. > [@zoid](#): > > Jesse is his own worst enemy and his actions are just as destructive as Walt’s on some level. True, although he also protects Walt from Gus a couple of times. He says he won’t work for Gus if he kills Walt and he kills Gale to protect Walt. There’s also an important distinction in that most of Jesse’s destructive behavior is brought on by his guilty conscience. > [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Did Walt tell the Schwarz’s to give the money to Walt Jr or to his kids? He told them to set up an irrevocable trust that Flynn could access on his 18th birthday. > [@Latimera](#): > > This is really interesting. I’m sure it wasn’t planned that way, but the episode could be viewed as having Walt die in the snow covered car in NH, then his ghost wrapping up loose ends before he can finally die. Neat. Some people are insisting on that interpretation. I think they’re missing the point, but I’ll acknowledge you can basically read the episode that way even though a couple of minor points don’t make sense. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/728 "2013-10-02T17:53:23Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > True, although he also protects Walt from Gus a couple of times. He says he won’t work for Gus if he kills Walt and he kills Gale to protect Walt. There’s also an important distinction in that most of Jesse’s destructive behavior is brought on by his guilty conscience. Exactly true. The real distinction between Jesse and Walt is motive. Walt is chaotic-evil. Jesse is chaotic-neutral. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/729 "2013-10-02T17:54:43Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > And the way he weakly shuffles around when he walks and the way he “appears” in Skyler’s kitchen after she hangs up the phone. Even when he meets Lydia and Todd, he just “appears” at their table, at least from their perspective. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/730 "2013-10-02T17:56:23Z")
I’m catching up on the thread over lunch, so hope I’m not repeating something. Among the thousands of words still being strewn over the internet about Breaking Bad, this article is among the most interesting - [http://www.avclub.com/articles/breaking-bad-ended-the-antihero-genre-by-introduci,103483/](http://www.avclub.com/articles/breaking-bad-ended-the-antihero-genre-by-introduci,103483/) . It’s about the notion of evil in the show, as well as the corollary ideas of sin, choice, etc. enjoy. have to get back to work so I can’t discuss now. (PS - rewatched some clips from Finale on YouTube & I still find this last episode really powerful.) ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/731 "2013-10-02T18:02:59Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Some people are insisting on that interpretation. I think they’re missing the point, but I’ll acknowledge you can basically read the episode that way even though a couple of minor points don’t make sense. Yeah, I think anyone insisting on one interpretation is missing the point. There’s a lot of stuff going on simultaneously, on a lot of levels. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/732 "2013-10-02T18:03:00Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I think they went for the ending with the most resolution. Calling it a happy fantasy is going too far (I understand you’re using it as shorthand). I’m going to say this might’ve been the best ending possible for Walt under the circumstances, but if you look at the expression on his face throughout the episode - when he says goodbye to Skyler, gets to touch Holly for the last time, watches Flynn from a distance without talking to him, and gives Jesse that farewell nod - he’s not happy. He fulfills his plans but even when he vanquishes his enemies he doesn’t get the Heisenberg thrill anymore. The thrill is gone. (Is **WordMan** still reading this?) > > You know what the general idea is with ghosts: they’re still here because they have unfinished business. That’s Walt in this episode. He’s sustained for a little because he has a task to complete. With that done, he goes to the lab and fades away. Wow - that’s a nice way to line up **Martian Bigfoot’s** multiple endings. Cool. (and yeah, nice BB King reference ;)) So - Walt gets a last chance to make amends and shut things down, his way. Why did Gilligan choose this ending? - Because this is an _entertainment_, and giving us a sense of Walt Winning felt really, really cool - Because this is a _moral statement_ - Walt redeemed himself by owning that he broke bad for himself and by doing right by his loved ones. So: We can redeem ourselves even if we are damaged past the point of ever being a Good Guy. Dammit - we’re a family! - Because ripping everything out of Walt’s hands in a truly Tragic way would’ve felt false given all the prurient thrills we got out of his badassness. Still thinking about this. And **Martian Bigfoot** - more kudos to you for the “Think about how the great Tragedies must’ve affected _their_ audiences back in the day” - I have been thinking about that a _lot_ over the past few weeks, but didn’t have the angle to articulate it. Nice. I can totally see how, in the freshness of the time and the role of theater in Elizabethan times that Hamlet make have shocked and engaged its audiences the BB has this one. A very cool thought to slip into and groove on - seeing Hamlet like the Sopranos and Macbeth like Breaking Bad, and how each might’ve felt taking the medium to a new level… ---
**Author:** ![RancidYakButterTeaParty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@RancidYakButterTeaParty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RancidYakButterTeaParty)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/733 "2013-10-02T18:26:37Z")
Not sure if this was brought up earlier in the thread, but I didn’t quite get through all 15 pages… Jesse has the chance to kill Walt. Knowing everything Walt did behind his back, especially that he watched Jane die, he doesn’t pull the trigger. During that scene, the camera pans to Walt’s bloody shirt and Jesse realizes Walt is wounded. If Walt is not already wounded, does Jesse pull the trigger? ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/734 "2013-10-02T18:30:54Z")
…No. I think he holds Walt for the police, even if it means he goes to prison also. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/735 "2013-10-02T18:30:55Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > About the cops showing up: Now that I think about it, I suspect that Walt may well indeed have instructed Badger and Skinny Pete to call the cops at a set time. Walt seemed very certain when speaking to Skyler that the Nazis wouldn’t be a factor after that night, but he couldn’t be 100% sure that his plan would work. My guess is that his first choice was to take the Nazis out personally, but if for some reason that failed, the cops coming was the backup plan. I agree he had to have someone call the cops. There were far too many of them responding for a simple call about shots being fired. On top of which, from a distance I’m not sure one would think that was a machine gun…sounded more like a jackhammer. Ha! Jackhammer. I just read that Skinny Pete (Charles Baker) was in The Blacklist pilot. I didn’t even notice him. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/736 "2013-10-02T19:11:42Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > …No. I think he holds Walt for the police, even if it means he goes to prison also. I don’t think so. I think he would have driven off just the same. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/737 "2013-10-02T19:19:36Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > I don’t think so. I think he would have driven off just the same. I agree, Jesse is not going to what Walt asks him to do anymore, Walt is not going to get things the way he wants. But it also isn’t obvious that Walt would ask him to do it if he weren’t injured already ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/738 "2013-10-02T19:34:42Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Why did Gilligan choose this ending? > > - Because this is an _entertainment_, and giving us a sense of Walt Winning felt really, really cool > > - Because this is a _moral statement_ - Walt redeemed himself by owning that he broke bad for himself and by doing right by his loved ones. So: We can redeem ourselves even if we are damaged past the point of ever being a Good Guy. Dammit - we’re a family! > > - Because ripping everything out of Walt’s hands in a truly Tragic way would’ve felt false given all the prurient thrills we got out of his badassness. Still thinking about this. I could see those as all valid points, but I think he would say that he and the other writers felt this was the ending that made the most sense and felt the most satisfying for the story and for Walt as a character. You could probably argue that letting Walt succeed, or appear to succeed, at everything in that episode suggests Gilligan fell in love his his own creation a little bit. I can’t judge him for that. I know a lot was made about Breaking Bad as a moralistic show. I think people took that a bit too far because to me, the show is more about consequences than morals. That just looks moralistic when it’s a story about bad things happening to bad people instead of good things happening to bad people. 😉 I agree with the BB writers who say Walt didn’t redeem himself here. He did way too much wrong to be redeemed by doing the right (or right-ish?) thing at the end. He did do the things that are precursors to redemption: understanding yourself and your actions, ameliorating the harm you’ve caused, and making some amends. That’s all he had time for at the end. One thing I appreciate is that I think Breaking Bad showed more nuance at the end than I expected. Every time we said there was no more Walt or no more Heisenberg, I think they made it plain that there wasn’t a firm dividing line between the two. He had two personae for most of the series but they weren’t separate personalities. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/739 "2013-10-02T19:40:12Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I think they made it plain that there wasn’t a firm dividing line between the two. He had two personae for most of the series but they weren’t separate personalities. Completely right. It’s not a split personality thing, there’s always just one Walt, just with the different sides of him dominating more or less at different times, on a gradient. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/740 "2013-10-02T20:14:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > One thing I appreciate is that I think Breaking Bad showed more nuance at the end than I expected. Every time we said there was no more Walt or no more Heisenberg, I think they made it plain that there wasn’t a firm dividing line between the two. He had two personae for most of the series but they weren’t separate personalities. The final scene, as we rise up through the open roof of the lab, the beam of the roof cuts the image of Walt in two (if I recall correctly). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591.md?page=38)