# Breaking in to the movies
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-in-to-the-movies/314718
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [July 29, 2005, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-in-to-the-movies/314718 "2005-07-29T10:53:22Z")
**Posts on this page:** 15
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2005, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-in-to-the-movies/314718/1 "2005-07-29T10:53:22Z")
I can understand how a big film like [Annie Hall](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075686/) could have jumpstarted the careers of a lot of new actors–or they recognized talent early, maybe like in [The Sentinel](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076683/)–but how did so many of them end up in both films? What’s the common thread?
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### Author:  [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2005, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-in-to-the-movies/314718/2 "2005-07-29T15:48:18Z")
Huh? I only count three people who are in both films - Beverly D’Angelo Christopher Walken, and Jeff Goldblum. That’s not surprising for two films made the same year. What do you mean?
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### Author:  [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-in-to-the-movies/314718/3 "2005-07-29T18:11:13Z")
OK, I stand corrected. But what other films are like that, then?
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### Author:  [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-in-to-the-movies/314718/4 "2005-07-29T18:28:16Z")
The Outsiders - Matt Dillon, Ralph Macchio, C. Thomas Howell, Patrick Swayze, Rob Lowe, Emilio Estevez, Tom Cruise, Diane Lane (didn’t know that one)
School Ties - Brendan Fraser, Matt Damon, Chris O’Donnell, Cole Hauser, Ben Affleck
Dazed and Confused - Jason London, Adam Goldberg, Matthew McConaughey, Cole Hauser, Milla Jovovich, Joey Lauren Adams, Ben Affleck
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### Author:  [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2005, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-in-to-the-movies/314718/5 "2005-07-29T18:29:58Z")
> [@msmith537](#):
>
> Dazed and Confused - Jason London, Adam Goldberg, Matthew McConaughey, Cole Hauser, Milla Jovovich, Joey Lauren Adams, Ben Affleck
and Parker Posey
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### Author:  [@pinkfreud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkfreud)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2005, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-in-to-the-movies/314718/6 "2005-07-29T19:03:34Z")
With the exception of Ron Howard, most of the young actors in **American Graffiti** were relatively unknown until the film made them into Big Names. Richard Dreyfuss, Suzanne Somers, Harrison Ford, Cindy Williams, Mackenzie Phillips, and others.
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### Author:  [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-in-to-the-movies/314718/7 "2005-07-29T19:10:19Z")
> [@msmith537](#):
>
> Dazed and Confused -
No, I know a single successful film can jumpstart a slew of careers. Diners, etc. But there’s two of them in the OP that have significant overlap. OK, Wendell Wagner says it’s only an overlap of three, but I would think even one would be surprising: relatively unknown gets small part in two movies, both of which have a lot of the younger actors go on to very successful careers.
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### Author:  [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2005, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-in-to-the-movies/314718/8 "2005-07-30T04:36:21Z")
Those three actors didn’t get discovered in either _Annie Hall_ or _The Sentinel_. You could make a better case for _Next Stop, Greenwich Village_, which came out the year before, as being the movie that Goldblum and Walken were discovered in. But that’s not really true either.
Look, I remember quite clearly seeing _Annie Hall_ when it first came out. I was already 25 and had already been a big fan of Woody Allen’s films for several years and was already somewhat of a film freak. When I saw Jeff Goldblum in _Annie Hall_, I said to myself, “Hey, there’s that guy that had small roles in both _Nashville_ and _Next Stop, Greenwich Village_.” Although I didn’t see _Death Wish_ and _California Split_ until several years later, if I’d been a little bit more of a film freak I would have recognized him from those two films. And he’d also done two more films that I haven’t seen yet.
Similarly, I remember saying to myself, “Hey, there’s that guy played the best friend of the hero who steals the hero’s girlfriend in _Next Stop, Greenwich Village_.” I also remembered him from the trailer of _Roseland_. He’d also done six other films that I haven’t seen yet by that point.
Beverly D’Angelo was somewhat of a newcomer to acting. She had already had short careers as a cartoonist and a singer in a rock band. She’d already been in one film.
The major casting directors in 1977 already knew Walken very well and Goldblum fairly well. Walken was 34 and had been acting in New York since he was 9. He had been doing major work on the New York stage for over a decade. A year before _Annie Hall_ came out, Walken was only narrowly beaten out by Harrison Ford for the role of Han Solo in _Star Wars_. Goldblum was 25 and had been acting in New York since he was 17. Far from being unknowns to the major casting directors, Walken and Goldblum were so well known that they were, in some sense, pretty obvious choices for their roles in _Annie Hall_.
It’s hard for me to tell now if D’Angelo was known to casting directors in 1977. _Annie Hall_ is full of performances by people who were only known within the acting community in 1977 but are now fairly well known to the movie public. (I don’t know whether to credit Woody Allen or the casting director of the film for this.) D’Angelo only appears in _Annie Hall_ in a TV show seen on a TV screen. Tracey Walter, who also only appears in that TV show within the movie, is another person with some recognition by casting directors but none by the general public at the time. There’s two even stranger small roles. Sigourney Weaver appears in a six-second role in a long shot as Woody Allen’s date at a movie. She was originally supposed to have Shelley Duvall’s role in the film, but she decided she would rather do a stage role that would take up too much of her time to do the movie. She agreed to instead do the six-second role as a favor. Strangest of all, there’s a scene in _Annie Hall_ where Allen and Keaton are making funny comments about people passing by. Allen refers to one person as the winner of a Truman Capote look-alike contest. That person was played by Capote himself in an uncredited role.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2005, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-in-to-the-movies/314718/9 "2005-07-30T04:39:20Z")
I usually just have a friend open the emergency exit for me.
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### Author:  [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2005, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-in-to-the-movies/314718/10 "2005-07-31T12:19:01Z")
Most actors and actresses have histories, before their first “big” part. The Olsen twins, I dunno. But I would be interested in other examples like this, if you say that it is not surprising.
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### Author:  [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2005, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-in-to-the-movies/314718/11 "2005-07-31T18:18:11Z")
> [@pinkfreud](#):
>
> With the exception of Ron Howard, most of the young actors in **American Graffiti** were relatively unknown until the film made them into Big Names. Richard Dreyfuss, Suzanne Somers, Harrison Ford, Cindy Williams, Mackenzie Phillips, and others.
Not sure about the others, but i think it’s a bit of a stretch to say that _American Graffiti_ turned Harrison Ford into a big name. He was still struggling to become famous when he got the role of Han Solo in _Star Wars_, and even after that his career was not really established until he did _Empire Strikes Back_, _Raiders of the Lost Ark_, and _Blade Runner_ in back-to-back-to-back years.
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### Author:  [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2005, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-in-to-the-movies/314718/12 "2005-07-31T18:45:04Z")
OK, let me see if I can specify the question better. A big star is someone who has had a successful big role, and gone on to other successful big roles. That rules out actors who have had big successful roles tailored to them, but don’t go on to other successful projects. So, are there other pairs of movies made about the same time that both have a large number of big stars before they were big stars, and the two movies share some (even one) of these?
I’ll accept varying definitions of “successful”, “big role”, and “large” 🙂
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### Author:  [@pinkfreud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkfreud)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-in-to-the-movies/314718/13 "2005-07-31T19:11:54Z")
> [@mhendo](#):
>
> Not sure about the others, but i think it’s a bit of a stretch to say that _American Graffiti_ turned Harrison Ford into a big name. He was still struggling to become famous when he got the role of Han Solo in _Star Wars_, and even after that his career was not really established until he did _Empire Strikes Back_, _Raiders of the Lost Ark_, and _Blade Runner_ in back-to-back-to-back years.
You’re right. Although _American Graffiti_ provided Ford with a bit of exposure, it didn’t make him a star. I recall seeing an interview in which he said that he was still making most of his income from carpentry for quite a while after _Star Wars_.
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### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [August 1, 2005, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-in-to-the-movies/314718/14 "2005-08-01T02:33:19Z")
**M_A_S\*H** made stars of Elliot Gould, Sally Kellerman, Robert Duvall (though he had been in quite a few movies before that), Donald Sutherland, Jo Ann Pflug (briefly), and Fred Williamson. It also was a showcase for Tom Skerrit (why it took him years to be recognized is a surprise, since his role was the equal of Gould’s or Sutherland’s), Rene Auberjonois, Gary Burghoff, Michael Murphy, John Schuck, Bud Cort, and Roger Bowen.
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### Author:  [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)
#### Post date: [August 1, 2005, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-in-to-the-movies/314718/15 "2005-08-01T15:04:25Z")
I’d be looking for _pairs_ of such movies.