# Breaking news: Hugo Chavez dead at 58 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 5, 2013, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-hugo-chavez-dead-at-58/652130 "2013-03-05T22:22:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-hugo-chavez-dead-at-58/652130/41 "2013-03-07T01:00:50Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Yes, Comrade..it is highly recommended that you mourn the Great Leader! The man taking over is an ex-bus driver..things should go well! Stop you are not helping me. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-hugo-chavez-dead-at-58/652130/42 "2013-03-07T02:36:51Z")
The more I learn about him, the more I like him. I just dl’d Greg Palast’s video (it’s free). ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-hugo-chavez-dead-at-58/652130/43 "2013-03-07T03:00:12Z")
The Economist’s view: > **[Now for the reckoning](https://www.economist.com/blogs/americasview/2013/03/venezuela-after-ch%C3%A1vez)** > > After 14 years of oil-fuelled autocracy, Hugo Chávez’s successors will struggle to keep the Bolivarian Revolution on the road ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-hugo-chavez-dead-at-58/652130/44 "2013-03-07T13:12:10Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Thats not exactly a good measure of his worth. There were millions mourning Kim Jong Il. And millions mourned Stalin as well. That doesn’t mean his reign was anything less than disastrous. Venezuela has more oil than anyone except Saudi Arabia. They should be obscenely rich, the Dubai of Latin America. Instead, they’re broke. That doesn’t sound like a very good ruler to me. You can directly compare it to the situation in Cuba: they love to blame the US trade embargo for their ruined economy, but there’s an entire world out there that’s _not_ the United States that Cuba can trade with. Sorry, Castro, but the buck stops with you. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-hugo-chavez-dead-at-58/652130/45 "2013-03-07T16:35:13Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > And millions mourned Stalin as well. That doesn’t mean his reign was anything less than disastrous. > > Venezuela has more oil than anyone except Saudi Arabia. They should be obscenely rich, the Dubai of Latin America. Instead, they’re broke. That doesn’t sound like a very good ruler to me. You can directly compare it to the situation in Cuba: they love to blame the US trade embargo for their ruined economy, but there’s an entire world out there that’s _not_ the United States that Cuba can trade with. Sorry, Castro, but the buck stops with you. Yes, in fact oil output dropped every year , because Chavez forced out the American oil compnies, and replaced competent engineers with political hacks. Just like Cuba did, the imposition of socialism lead to declining incomes, and increasing poverty-but that was ok, he showed the “yanquis” he could wreck an economy. What the idiots like Penna nd Moore don’t realize is, Chavez stole billions for himself and his cronies, while running a few substandard clinics for his people. But because he stood up to the Americans , he was made into some sort of bogus hero. Ask the Cuban people how they like castro? (One Cuban-American friend says that Castro’s slogan out to be “socialism and death”. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-hugo-chavez-dead-at-58/652130/46 "2013-03-07T16:54:38Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > The more I learn about him, the more I like him. I just dl’d Greg Palast’s video (it’s free). The more I learn about him the more I want to piss on his grave. Tomato Tomahto. ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-hugo-chavez-dead-at-58/652130/47 "2013-03-07T16:56:53Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Yes, in fact oil output dropped every year , because Chavez forced out the American oil compnies, and replaced competent engineers with political hacks. Just like Cuba did, the imposition of socialism lead to declining incomes, and increasing poverty-but that was ok, he showed the “yanquis” he could wreck an economy. What the idiots like Penna nd Moore don’t realize is, Chavez stole billions for himself and his cronies, while running a few substandard clinics for his people. But because he stood up to the Americans , he was made into some sort of bogus hero. Ask the Cuban people how they like castro? (One Cuban-American friend says that Castro’s slogan out to be “socialism and death”. I don’t like Chavez and frankly never did, but there is a reason that he was popular. The previous governments were just as bad and corrupt, with very little of the money trickling down to the poor. Chavez didn’t gain power in a vacuum and not all was sunshine and puppies under the previous regimes. Chavez may have been a power mad crook, but at least some of the money trickled down in the form of social programs. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-hugo-chavez-dead-at-58/652130/48 "2013-03-07T18:15:15Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Yes, Comrade..it is highly recommended that you mourn the Great Leader! You mean the _Dear_ Leader, the Great Leader was his father. See, this is why the guy was so pissed off all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-hugo-chavez-dead-at-58/652130/49 "2013-03-07T19:29:08Z")
> [@Caffeine.addict](#): > > I don’t like Chavez and frankly never did, but there is a reason that he was popular. The previous governments were just as bad and corrupt, with very little of the money trickling down to the poor. Chavez didn’t gain power in a vacuum and not all was sunshine and puppies under the previous regimes. Chavez may have been a power mad crook, but at least some of the money trickled down in the form of social programs. Corruption? In South America? My word! ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2013, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-hugo-chavez-dead-at-58/652130/50 "2013-03-07T22:47:05Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The more I learn about him the more I want to piss on his grave. Tomato Tomahto. Really? Like what kinds of things? Did he steal candy from babies or something? This isn’t GD or anything so I’m not asking for cites, but I’m curious what \*recent \*things you’ve learned that make you feel that way? ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-hugo-chavez-dead-at-58/652130/51 "2013-03-08T00:19:20Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Really? Like what kinds of things? Did he steal candy from babies or something? This isn’t GD or anything so I’m not asking for cites, but I’m curious what \*recent \*things you’ve learned that make you feel that way? Reading my link should lead you to dislike the man. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-hugo-chavez-dead-at-58/652130/52 "2013-03-08T01:44:41Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Really? Like what kinds of things? Did he steal candy from babies or something? This isn’t GD or anything so I’m not asking for cites, but I’m curious what \*recent \*things you’ve learned that make you feel that way? Since you’re not asking for cites, he bit my sister. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-hugo-chavez-dead-at-58/652130/53 "2013-03-08T13:16:08Z")
So, now they’re saying Chavez will be stuffed and put on display, like Lenin or Mao. :rolleyes: Of course, this is Latin America, so the next time the opposition comes to power Chavez body will most likely be whisked away and cremeted/buried at sea/whatever. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-hugo-chavez-dead-at-58/652130/54 "2013-03-08T13:40:06Z")
WEll, how about the victims of FARC (the Columbian terrorist group)-they killed over 4000 innocent people in Columbia. Chavez sent them money and weapons…great man, that Hugo Chavez! I think Shakespeare was wrong-the evil that men do does live on after them…except that people forget who nurtured the evil. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-hugo-chavez-dead-at-58/652130/55 "2013-03-08T15:07:53Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I think Shakespeare was wrong-the evil that men do does live on after them..except that people forget who nurtured the evil. He agreed with you. The line is “The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones.” ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-hugo-chavez-dead-at-58/652130/56 "2013-03-09T00:41:41Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Let’s see, there was the [December 1998 election](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_presidential_election,_1998) that first brought him to power. During his first term, there was the April 1999 referendum to establish, and July 1999 election for membership in, [the constitutional convention](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Constituent_Assembly_of_Venezuela), followed by the [December 1999 referendum](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_constitutional_referendum,_December_1999) to confirm the new [constitution](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Venezuela). > > Then there was the [July 2000 election](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_presidential_election,_2000) that returned Chavez for a second term (the new constitution mandated new elections). During his second term, he survived the [April 2002 coup](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt), and the [December 2002 to February 2003 strike](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_general_strike_of_2002%E2%80%932003), and finally the [August 2004 recall referendum](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_recall_referendum,_2004) (all of these had some of the same people involved). > > He was [elected to his third term in December 2006](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_presidential_election,_2006), and [his fourth in December 2012](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_presidential_election,_2012). > > So that’s four presidential elections and one referendum to endorse Chavez personally, plus a couple street fights in his favor, and a further three votes to enable and endorse his constitutional reforms. Clearly, while he had powerful interests opposed, his governance was enormously popular with the Venezuelan people. It’s hard to imagine that most of those people would want to see radical reversals. And the most amazing thing was that there was no voter fraud in any of these elections. None what so ever. The opposition was given every opportunity to compete was him. Amazing!!! ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-hugo-chavez-dead-at-58/652130/57 "2013-03-09T00:56:03Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Let’s see, there was the [December 1998 election](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_presidential_election,_1998) that first brought him to power. During his first term, there was the April 1999 referendum to establish, and July 1999 election for membership in, [the constitutional convention](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Constituent_Assembly_of_Venezuela), followed by the [December 1999 referendum](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_constitutional_referendum,_December_1999) to confirm the new [constitution](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Venezuela). > > Then there was the [July 2000 election](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_presidential_election,_2000) that returned Chavez for a second term (the new constitution mandated new elections). During his second term, he survived the [April 2002 coup](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt), and the [December 2002 to February 2003 strike](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_general_strike_of_2002%E2%80%932003), and finally the [August 2004 recall referendum](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_recall_referendum,_2004) (all of these had some of the same people involved). > > He was [elected to his third term in December 2006](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_presidential_election,_2006), and [his fourth in December 2012](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_presidential_election,_2012). > > So that’s four presidential elections and one referendum to endorse Chavez personally, plus a couple street fights in his favor, and a further three votes to enable and endorse his constitutional reforms. Clearly, while he had powerful interests opposed, his governance was enormously popular with the Venezuelan people. It’s hard to imagine that most of those people would want to see radical reversals. Yes, and Castro got 100% of the popular vote..every time! Amazing!:smack: ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-hugo-chavez-dead-at-58/652130/58 "2013-03-09T12:39:17Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > He agreed with you. The line is “The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones.” No..I meant that all the Chavez-lovers forget all the evil that this creep propagated. Michael Moore was positively in love with e guy..and Sean Penn thought he was next to Jesus Christ. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-hugo-chavez-dead-at-58/652130/59 "2013-03-09T14:31:42Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Yes, and Castro got 100% of the popular vote..every time! Amazing!:smack: Castro never faced anything like a real vote. Chavez did, several times, under the eyes of international observers. There’s plenty to criticize him for, but when you suggest that his government was not democratically legitimized this is far enough from the truth that it actually undermines anything else you might say. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-hugo-chavez-dead-at-58/652130/60 "2013-03-09T17:45:43Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Castro never faced anything like a real vote. Chavez did, several times, under the eyes of international observers… That, and the Cuban President (actually 2 seperate offices, President of the Council of State & President of the Council of Ministers, held by the same man) is elected by the National Assembly, not directly. His succesor plans to preserve his corpse and put it on public [disiplay](http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/07/us-venezuela-chavez-idUSBRE92405420130307) like Lenin, Mao, Ho, etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-hugo-chavez-dead-at-58/652130.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-hugo-chavez-dead-at-58/652130.md?page=4)