# BREAKING NEWS!!!! Makers of GTA to be sued **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 15, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-makers-of-gta-to-be-sued/201807 "2003-09-15T21:03:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2003, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-makers-of-gta-to-be-sued/201807/61 "2003-09-16T22:59:34Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by KidCharlemagne_ > I’m not up on the outcome of cases in the vein of “The lyrics made him kill himself,” but if the claimants won in any of those cases then I wouldn’t be surprised if they won in this one. AFAIK, none have ever been successful, which will probably be a salient point in getting this case summarily dismissed. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2003, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-makers-of-gta-to-be-sued/201807/62 "2003-09-16T23:07:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miller \* > \*\*AFAIK, none have ever been successful, which will probably be a salient point in getting this case summarily dismissed. \*\* Well that’s good to know. I just assumed that after that McDonald’s coffee spill suit verdict it must have been a suer’s market. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2003, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-makers-of-gta-to-be-sued/201807/63 "2003-09-16T23:47:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow \* > \*\*Ah, no. The quoted language is talking about “but-for” causation. He’s basically saying that any injury that would be avoided but for the occurrence of a given event yields liability for the person responsible for that given event. But that’s only part of the picture: the given event also cannot be too remote from the injury; that is, it must also be a _proximate cause_ of the injury. The lawyer’s statement of the law is thus incomplete. > \*\* Sure, but if the chain of events he’s using runs thusly: Kids play GTA3 and get the idea that shooting people driving moving vehicles is fun -\> kids go out and shoot people driving moving vehicles, then that’s a pretty short chain. Given that chain, the GTA3 involvement was not very far removed from the harm. _Proximate cause_ at least in theory, can go back that far pretty easily. Now of course the classical formulation of _proximate cause_ includes the factors of forseeability and the idea that the chain breaks at the FIRST link where the harm could have been averted. As such I feel it is eminently reasonable to say that but for the actions of the kids with the gun the harm would never have happened. Thus they bear the burden of being the _proximate cause_ of the harm. The idea that “but for” the production of the game the harm would never have been caused ignores the idea that the trace is supposed to stop once the first “but for” was reached. Assuming minimal forseeability from one event to the other of course. It seems the legal position being taken by the attorney in the article that these results were not unforseeable, given the maleable nature of younger people, and some of the burden should shift up his nice, short chain of events onto the people who made GTA3. As mentioned before, I think this chain is probably unreasonable, and I disagree with some other aspects of the line of reasoning, but it is valid legally as far as I can tell. If he is making the arguement that the second event should have been forseeable from the first, then that can make the “but for” in the events controlled by the shooters fail to break the search for _proximate harm_. If they knew their game could incite violence in the teens, then teens were not wholly responsible for their actions and the part of the responsibility for the harm falls on the ones who incited the teens. Of course he’s hoping for a jury instead of a judge because juries are somewhat easier to sway with these kinds of arguements. Now I must regretfully bow out of this entertaining nitpickery because **KidCharlemagne** mentioned the suit-which-must-not-be-named and I must flee before the thread degenerates into what must almost certainly follow. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2003, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-makers-of-gta-to-be-sued/201807/64 "2003-09-16T23:50:40Z")
I wonder how many young serial killers got their start after sitting through Shakespeare’s _Titus Andronicus_ back in the 1590s. “Oh no! It’s the Codpiece and Big Frilly Collar Thingy That Looks Like Cupcake Paper Mafia! Run!” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2003, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-makers-of-gta-to-be-sued/201807/65 "2003-09-16T23:55:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KidCharlemagne \* > \*\*Well that’s good to know. I just assumed that after that McDonald’s coffee spill suit verdict it must have been a suer’s market. \*\* [The facts behind the famous MacDonalds Coffee lawsuit.](http://www.atlanet.org/ConsumerMediaResources/Tier3/press_room/FACTS/frivolous/McdonaldsCoffeecase.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2003, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-makers-of-gta-to-be-sued/201807/66 "2003-09-17T01:25:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cervaise \* > \*\*I wonder how many young serial killers got their start after sitting through Shakespeare’s _Titus Andronicus_ back in the 1590s. > \*\* You see, that’s part of what really bugs me about this. Would anyone even conceive of trying to sue Stanley Kubrick if two homicidal maniacs claimed to be inspired by “A Clockwork Orange”?[sup]\*[/sup] Why is it only video games and comic books that have these magical powers to make people not responsible for their own murderous actions? [sup]\*[/sup]Yes, I know he’s dead. It’s a hypothetical. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2003, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-makers-of-gta-to-be-sued/201807/67 "2003-09-17T01:33:41Z")
Ok, clearly I’ve missed the contentious debate (as well as the facts) about the McDonalds lawsuit, so based on **Miller’s** link and **Mtgman** ’s cry of foul, I officially recind my post (for now). Please resume your arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2003, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-makers-of-gta-to-be-sued/201807/68 "2003-09-17T01:34:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Orbifold \* > **Why is it only video games and comic books that have these magical powers to make people not responsible for their own murderous actions?** It’s the magical power being not particularly interesting to those blaming it for social ills, so they wouldn’t miss 'em if they’re banned. Nobody blames the entertainment they themselves like for having a bad influence. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2003, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-makers-of-gta-to-be-sued/201807/69 "2003-09-17T01:35:37Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Orbifold \* > \*\*You see, that’s part of what really bugs me about this. Would anyone even conceive of trying to sue Stanley Kubrick if two homicidal maniacs claimed to be inspired by “A Clockwork Orange”?[sup]_[/sup] Why is it only video games and comic books that have these magical powers to make people not responsible for their own murderous actions? > > [sup]\*[/sup]Yes, I know he’s dead. It’s a hypothetical. \*\* Yea but Stanley Kubrick is dead. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2003, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-makers-of-gta-to-be-sued/201807/70 "2003-09-17T02:02:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Orbifold \* > \*\*Why is it only video games and comic books that have these magical powers to make people not responsible for their own murderous actions? \*\* You forgot about role-playing games and heavy metal. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2003, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-makers-of-gta-to-be-sued/201807/71 "2003-09-17T03:31:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miller \* > \*\*You forgot about role-playing games and heavy metal. \*\* Nah, that was in the 80s. Today it’s rap metal, video games, and MTV. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2003, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-makers-of-gta-to-be-sued/201807/72 "2003-09-17T17:18:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mtgman \* > \*\*Sure, but if the chain of events he’s using runs thusly: Kids play GTA3 and get the idea that shooting people driving moving vehicles is fun -\> kids go out and shoot people driving moving vehicles, then that’s a pretty short chain. \*\* All of which is also fine, but that’s not what I was snarking about (is snarking even a word? It should be). I was snarking about one specific overbroad statement of the law made by the attorney, not about his case in general. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2003, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-makers-of-gta-to-be-sued/201807/73 "2003-09-17T18:14:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow \* > \*\* (is snarking even a word? It should be). \*\* Clearly you aren’t playing enough video games if you have to ask if snarking is a word. Haven’t you ever let out a bunch of blind sonar-enabled mutant rodents that explode in 15 seconds to nibble attack someone that pisses you off? ---
**Author:** ![Computer\_Guru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@Computer\_Guru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Computer_Guru)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2003, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-makers-of-gta-to-be-sued/201807/74 "2003-09-17T18:29:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by flood \* > \*\*[Voila](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3104892.stm) > And there you have it. I’m still dumbfounded. I’ll post back when I have something. I just can’t right now. \*\* These kids should not only be in jail, they should have their heads beaten in to instill some sense and then thrown into a insansity house. Geesh people. You can’t blame someone else for your actions. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2003, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-makers-of-gta-to-be-sued/201807/75 "2003-09-17T20:23:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KidCharlemagne \* > \*\*Clearly you aren’t playing enough video games if you have to ask if snarking is a word. Haven’t you ever let out a bunch of blind sonar-enabled mutant rodents that explode in 15 seconds to nibble attack someone that pisses you off? \*\* Heh. Next up in the dock: Valve Software. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-makers-of-gta-to-be-sued/201807.md?page=3)