# Breaking news! Neverland Ranch raided! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 18, 2003, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-neverland-ranch-raided/213960 "2003-11-18T19:59:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Cabbage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@Cabbage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabbage)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-neverland-ranch-raided/213960/61 "2003-11-20T21:57:37Z")
This may be a terrible thing to bring up, but, then again, what about this case isn’t terrible? Is anyone else thinking there’s a high probability of Jackson committing suicide in the near future? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-neverland-ranch-raided/213960/62 "2003-11-20T22:29:47Z")
**Opal** , I reiterate my question: Why did you bring this up in the first place? You must have known it to be a no-win scenario: Either you save your credibility by divulging particulars, or you destroy your credibility by stonewalling. (I expected you to choose the latter. _Why_ I expected this is left as an exercise for the (mind-)reader.) ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-neverland-ranch-raided/213960/63 "2003-11-20T23:32:03Z")
…because it was interesting? I figured that people would accept it at face value: someone relating an anecdote which they can either believe or disbelieve. It’s MPSIMS. I had an interesting personal tidbit related to the topic. I posted it. I’m not sure why it’s such a big issue to you. If you choose to not believe it, that’s no skin off of my nose. People relate personal anecdotes in MPSIMS all the time–do you hound them for proof as well? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DeVena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dec6dc/32.png) [@DeVena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeVena)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-neverland-ranch-raided/213960/64 "2003-11-20T23:53:17Z")
[Obligatory Mugshot Link](http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/michaeljacksonmug1.html) (And I, for one, appreciate **Opal** ’s color commentary - she admits it’s heresay - not a problem) ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-neverland-ranch-raided/213960/65 "2003-11-21T00:03:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OpalCat \* > \*\*She just said that it was really clear what the relationship was, and it wasn’t platonic. Apparently they acted like “a couple”. \*\* This may be a moot point in Jackson’s case, but it sounds like your friend could be reading a lot more into the relationship than what’s really going on. It’s easy for children to form very close relationships with adults, especially if it’s on a “peer” level instead of a parent/mentor type situation, without any sexual activity involved. Unless, of course, the gestures she observed were substantially more overt, like french-kissing or mutual pocket-pool or something along those lines. P.S. I’m guessing it’s Diana Ross. But that’s just for my own amusement. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-neverland-ranch-raided/213960/66 "2003-11-21T00:11:13Z")
I don’t think Diana could put together such coherent sentences. I think it’s Bubbles. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-neverland-ranch-raided/213960/67 "2003-11-21T00:13:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DeVena \* > \*\*[Obligatory Mugshot Link](http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/michaeljacksonmug1.html) > \*\* \*\*\* EEEeeeEEEEYAAAAAaaaaAAAGH!!!\*\*\* ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-neverland-ranch-raided/213960/68 "2003-11-21T00:56:45Z")
must. not. click. link. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-neverland-ranch-raided/213960/69 "2003-11-21T01:25:44Z")
**Derleth** , give it a rest, OK? **Opal** was upfront with it being secondhand and hearsay, this isn’t Great Debates or General Questions, just take it or leave it, OK? Geez, I mean I know a couple celebrities’ flight instructors, charter pilots, and cousins - I won’t win any praise for name dropping for otherwise aping the media idiots. So what? _Somebody_ knows these people. But, yes, this will end badly. I see three alternatives here: 1. He’s innocent (yes, it seems unlikely, BUT it is possible) but wil be hounded all his life by accusations like this 2. He’s guilty, but he’ll go free - in which there will be more victims 3. He’s guilty and he’s sent to jail - but what they do to child molestors in jail isn’t pretty at all, especially not when said molestors look like frail and dainty white girls. About the only amusing this is watching the Wacko Jacko watchers. Yes, the double-bombing in Istanbul was the true news story, but maybe folks are looking at Mr. Pervert because the images from Turkey are just a tad to graphic for some. I don’t know. The world is a messed up place, what can I say? And I just know that mug shot is going to end up on this page: [The HisTory of Michael Jackson’s Poor Damn Face](http://anomalies-unlimited.com/Jackson.html) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-neverland-ranch-raided/213960/70 "2003-11-21T01:44:35Z")
Oh, wait - there IS a fourth alternative: 1. Flee the country - maybe Amsterdamn or Thailand or some other place with a reputation for child sex rings will take him in, where he can launch a new career. Personally, it’s hard to say which alternative is worst. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-neverland-ranch-raided/213960/71 "2003-11-21T02:24:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eats\_Crayons \* > **"Breaking story: Jackson in the courtroom - sneezes audibly!"** No, that might be considered news. I mean his nose flying across the courtroom on live TV! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-neverland-ranch-raided/213960/72 "2003-11-21T04:10:53Z")
[It’s interesting to note that Jackson fits the profile for a pedophile almost to the letter](http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/psychology/pedophiles/7.html?sect=19). It’s such a close description of him that it’s freaking scary. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-neverland-ranch-raided/213960/73 "2003-11-21T04:14:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeff Olsen \* > \*\*No, that might be considered news. I mean his nose flying across the courtroom on live TV! 😃 \*\* ACK! Bad Jeff! Bad Jeff!! _wheezes around the aspirated bit of onion from her salad…_ ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-neverland-ranch-raided/213960/74 "2003-11-21T04:16:59Z")
You remember his _Off the Wall_ album? He was a beautiful young man. He had real talent. He could write, sing, arrange. His stage presence was mesmerisng. He had a reputation as a pretty nice guy. He was on top of the world. But, slowly, all his weirdness from his father’s evil and his own stolen youth started coming out. What drives him? What does he really think and feel? I think he may well be insane. Still doesn’t excuse child molesting, though. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-neverland-ranch-raided/213960/75 "2003-11-21T05:10:34Z")
How do kids know it’s bedtime at Michael Jackson’s house? When the big hand is on the little hand ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-neverland-ranch-raided/213960/76 "2003-11-21T07:48:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NoClueBoy \* > \*\*But, slowly, all his weirdness from his father’s evil and his own stolen youth started coming out. What drives him? What does he really think and feel? I think he may well be insane. > > \*\* See, that’s the thing. _This guy needs help_. He should have been in therapy years ago. Let him be convicted if it’s the only way he can get some counseling. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-neverland-ranch-raided/213960/77 "2003-11-21T10:48:14Z")
Couple points here: 1. Because child molesting is a felony the usual outcome is _incarceration_, NOT “counseling”. Counseling is rarely available to convicted felons of any sort while in jail, and what little is available is usually focused on drug abuse. Particularly when the cost-cutters get active, counseling is one of the first “luxuries” to go 2. There is no cure for pedophillia. The choices for these men are basically to either stay in jail, keep molesting if they’re out of jail, or give up sex for the rest of their lives. None of which are particularly attractive choices. Although castration has been suggested from time to time, the sex drive in humans is not wholly dependent on functioning gonads and, in any case, molestation and abuse can occur even when the adult male is entirely missing his genitals. So unless you want to also remove alternatives means of fondling children, like fingers, lips, tongue, and what not there’s really no guarantee the man can’t commit the crime again. I’m sure if you did a search on the literature out there on pedophiles you’d be able to turn up evidence of some that have been able to resist their impulses and refrain from committing crimes. That doesn’t mean their desires to have sex with children have gone, only that they are exercising self-control. Certainly, I’d be in favor of helping such people to continue to exercise their self-control indefinitely, but the truth is that society does little other than punish pedophiles. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-neverland-ranch-raided/213960/78 "2003-11-21T13:18:00Z")
**Broomstick** : Okay. But I’m still open to the possibility that MJ might not be entirely able to help what he is. Not saying he’s not responsible for his actions; not saying he shouldn’t go to jail if he really did whatever he’s being accused of. Just saying that somewhere along the line, something went horribly, horribly wrong, and maybe therapy could have helped him **before** he started messing with prepubescent kids. ---
**Author:** ![sportshoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@sportshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sportshoe)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-neverland-ranch-raided/213960/79 "2003-11-21T16:05:26Z")
Michael jackson is on a plain together with a group of kids. The pilot calls for michael jackson and tells him the plain will go down and they only have two parachutes. He suggests they both use the parachutes to jump out of the plain while its still possible. So michael asks the pilot, what about the kids. the pilot says fuck the kids. Michael asks, do we still have time? ---
**Author:** ![DeVena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dec6dc/32.png) [@DeVena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeVena)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-neverland-ranch-raided/213960/80 "2003-11-21T17:50:34Z")
Excuse me for a second… But doesn’t Michael look an awful lot like Joan Crawford in the mugshot? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-neverland-ranch-raided/213960.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-neverland-ranch-raided/213960.md?page=5)