# Breaking news - Shooting at Synagogue in Pittsburgh **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 27, 2018, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591 "2018-10-27T15:07:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/41 "2018-10-27T23:14:01Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Gateway Pundit (your cite for the “Nazi who hated Trump”) is a completely unreliable source of any information. I’ve never known Jim Hoft to actually get ANYTHING right, especially early-breaking stuff. A guy of the same name on Gab (a white supremacist Facebook) said the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/42 "2018-10-27T23:15:49Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Patx2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Patx2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patx2)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/43 "2018-10-27T23:26:46Z")
My thoughts are with the families of the victims. This is tragic, senseless, and heartbreaking. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2018, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/44 "2018-10-28T00:49:47Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Yeah, keep on believing fantasies and then you can be surprised when they turn out not to be true: I’m pretty sure Leo Frank would disagree with you. Who’s Leo Frank? Did you mean Otto Frank? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2018, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/45 "2018-10-28T01:00:32Z")
No; I meant [Leo Frank](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Frank). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2018, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/46 "2018-10-28T15:25:36Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > …the White House isn’t aware that not only are weapons not permitted in synagogues, but it’s also forbidden to be armed on the Sabbath. Dumbass. Cite weapons are not permitted in synagogues or it’s forbidden to be armed on the sabbath. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2018, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/47 "2018-10-28T17:04:32Z")
Mods – if this is over the line to being classed as political I will accept your decision. My intent is information based on the first post on the subject and not a highjack but I have my fears. > [@Magiver](#): > > Cite weapons are not permitted in synagogues or it’s forbidden to be armed on the sabbath. Although I am on your side in this, to be frank its a lively debate within the Jewish community. My close friend who was a member at Tree of Life has a CCW; I have no idea if he ever carried at worship. But it did make me aware that its a topic in his faith just as it is at some Christian congregations. I believe that its left to the congregation to decide with notification required on the doors if forbidden in some jurisdictions. > **[OU Torah - Study Torah daily](https://outorah.org)** > > From the parsha to Daf Yomi, read and listen to Torah, words of inspiration and more from Rabbi Dr. Tzvi Hersh Weinreb, Rabbi Moshe Elefant, Rabbi Shalom Rosner and others. > **[Bring Your Gun To Synagogue](https://dailycaller.com/2015/01/12/bring-your-gun-to-synagogue/)** > > Israeli Jews know what American and French ones don't: Guns in pews save lives [http://washingtonjewishweek.com/43823/law-could-bring-guns-to-prayer/featured-slider-post/](http://washingtonjewishweek.com/43823/law-could-bring-guns-to-prayer/featured-slider-post/) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/48 "2018-10-28T17:58:31Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Trump is strongly condemning this horrific act. It’s not surprising. His daughter has converted to Judaism and his grandkids are being raised in the faith. This hits home hard for him and many other Americans. > > [Trump calls Pittsburgh synagogue attack 'evil' anti-Semitism | AP News](https://www.apnews.com/5f596ac7b6f845e59460e9e69072da03) One hopes that this would hit home hard for him and he would be condemning it even without whatever personal connection he has via his Jewish son-in-law and Jewish grandchildren. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/49 "2018-10-28T21:05:38Z")
In my community there is legal concealed carry for weapons, but individual places can forbid weapons of any sort on the premises. A gun with a slash through it is posted at entrances. churches(my own included), the library, hospitals, and so on, display the placard outside. I’m not aware of what laws in Pittsburch say. ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Nonesutch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@Royal\_Nonesutch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Nonesutch)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2018, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/50 "2018-10-28T21:08:43Z")
All of the large synagogues I have visited in Eastern Europe (Krakow, Budapest, Prague, Vienna, etc.) have a permanant, highly visible armed police presence outside, and at least one, the Dohany Utcai Zsinagoga (also known as the Great Synagogue of Budapest, which is the largest synagogue in Europe) has metal detectors and x-ray machines at the entrance. I understand that in a perfect world this would not be needed, but America has a lot of guns, many in the hands of criminals and or mentally deranged bigots and while Donald Trump has indeed said many stupid things, I can’t understand how calling for armed guards or law enforcement at vunerable religious sites like this is one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Nonesutch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@Royal\_Nonesutch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Nonesutch)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/51 "2018-10-28T21:13:31Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > It looks like the bastard might be from my neck of the woods. Jesus Christ. > > And the current buffoon in the White House isn’t aware that not only are weapons not permitted in synagogues, but it’s also forbidden to be armed on the Sabbath. Dumbass. All of the large synagogues I have visited here in Eastern Europe (Krakow, Budapest, Prague, Vienna, etc.) have a permanant, highly visible armed police presence outside, and at least one, the Dohany Utcai Zsinagoga (also known as the Great Synagogue of Budapest, which is the largest synagogue in Europe) has metal detectors and x-ray machines at the entrance. I understand that in a perfect world this would not be needed, but America has a lot of guns, many in the hands of criminals and or mentally deranged bigots and while Donald Trump has indeed said many stupid things, I can’t understand how calling for armed guards or law enforcement at vunerable religious sites like this is one of them. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2018, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/52 "2018-10-28T21:25:59Z")
> [@Royal\_Nonesutch](#): > > All of the large synagogues I have visited in Eastern Europe (Krakow, Budapest, Prague, Vienna, etc.) have a permanant, highly visible armed police presence outside, and at least one, the Dohany Utcai Zsinagoga (also known as the Great Synagogue of Budapest, which is the largest synagogue in Europe) has metal detectors and x-ray machines at the entrance. > > I understand that in a perfect world this would not be needed, but America has a lot of guns, many in the hands of criminals and or mentally deranged bigots and while Donald Trump has indeed said many stupid things, I can’t understand how calling for armed guards or law enforcement at vunerable religious sites like this is one of them. It’s not about it being a perfect world. It’s about how _ **America was THE place where that was NOT needed** _ and which is the reason we have a large Jewish community to begin with. It is not right to just accept things getting \*\*\*worse \*\*\*as if it were some natural phenomenon we can’t stop. ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Nonesutch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@Royal\_Nonesutch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Nonesutch)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2018, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/53 "2018-10-28T21:39:21Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > It is not right to just accept things getting \*\*\*worse \*\*\*as if it were some natural phenomenon we can’t stop. The guns are already out there, as I said above, many of them, right now, as we speak, currently in the hands of those who wish to harm unarmed innocents. Unless you know something the rest of humanity cannot figure out, (the United States does not have a monopoly on violence, even if it has more than its fair share) perhaps having armed protection at places like the synagouge in Pittsburgh (provided by those trained, willing and able to meet deadly foirce with same) is a step that would save American lives. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2018, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/54 "2018-10-28T23:52:04Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > It’s not about it being a perfect world. It’s about how _ **America was THE place where that was NOT needed** _… It’s about how _ **America WAS the place where that WAS not needed.** _ ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/55 "2018-10-29T00:33:50Z")
> [@Royal\_Nonesutch](#): > > I understand that in a perfect world this would not be needed, but America has a lot of guns, many in the hands of criminals and or mentally deranged bigots and while Donald Trump has indeed said many stupid things, I can’t understand how calling for armed guards or law enforcement at vunerable religious sites like this is one of them. Because in this situation it’s a way of publicly announcing that he and the Republicans _aren’t_ going to stop inciting violence, so their victims are on their own. It’s basically “sucks to be you”. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/56 "2018-10-29T00:55:32Z")
> [@Royal\_Nonesutch](#): > > I can’t understand how calling for armed guards or law enforcement at vunerable religious sites like this is one of them. So if the bigger congregations get armed security, they being able to afford it, the jerks would move to smaller venues. Not every congregation, of any flavor, can afford that kind of security. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/57 "2018-10-29T01:24:33Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > So if the bigger congregations get armed security, they being able to afford it, the jerks would move to smaller venues. Not every congregation, of any flavor, can afford that kind of security. or members of the congregation with a CCW license and regular upkeep at the range. It’s not that hard to consistently group 3 rounds on a target. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/58 "2018-10-29T01:25:06Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > It’s not about it being a perfect world. It’s about how _ **America was THE place where that was NOT needed** _ and which is the reason we have a large Jewish community to begin with. It is not right to just accept things getting \*\*\*worse \*\*\*as if it were some natural phenomenon we can’t stop. I want it stopped; now. That the congregation I belong to has had to consider things like this because some joker may violate a PFA and shoot up his family some Sunday, that some moron may take offense that we’re accepting of people they don’t like, that some nutjob has voices that tell him we’re the spawn of Satan. And again, we’re Christian and a mainsteam denomination. Imagine this from the perspective of the Jewish community, or Hindu, or Moslem. Again, armed guards for big days, having their buildings examined and critiqued by Homeland Security and private agencies — some of this goes back a generation or more. We can define worse in different ways but this isn’t a new thing around here; honestly. What was new this time AFAIK was that the congregation was targeted at worship - in the past it was more the building attacked than the members. But its been enough of an issue to be a topic of discussion at various places of worship in Pennsylvania since I was a lot younger than I am now. The particular denomination that feels most at risk ebbs and flows, the nature of the attack varies, but its come up at Church-Wide Assembly level for us and probably will as long as we exist. Do I want to see the day again when church/worship places doors don’t have locks and people can walk in any time in safety and comfort? As much as those days ever existed you damn bet I want to see them again. But I fear that level of change may not be in us if it ever was. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/59 "2018-10-29T01:47:53Z")
My congregation does have security in the form of alarm systems and video. At major events, like the silent movie last Friday we do have guys keeping an eye on the doors. It’s a big building, so there are a lot, and most will be locked. during the working day you have to be buzzed in. But as for weapons, all we have are the placards that have a gun with a slash. We DO care about safety, are very concerned. See, the day before Thanksgiving, in 1975, someone hid in the church and set fire to the sanctuary. It was totally destroyed, except for the stone walls. I wasn’t a member there then, but it was the biggest and costliest fire in the city, at that time. So we care, but we truly don’t wan’t weapons to be added to the mix. What scares me is that it could happen so easily, anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/60 "2018-10-29T02:11:57Z")
> [@Royal\_Nonesutch](#): > > Unless you know something the rest of humanity cannot figure out,. The rest of humanity figured it out. The problem can’t be fixed overnight in the USA but you can take steps to fix it over the long term, if you care to. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591.md?page=4)