# Breaking news - Shooting at Synagogue in Pittsburgh **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 27, 2018, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591 "2018-10-27T15:07:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/61 "2018-10-29T02:38:44Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > The rest of humanity figured it out. The problem can’t be fixed overnight in the USA but you can take steps to fix it over the long term, if you care to. How did the rest of humanity figure out how to stop violence? ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/62 "2018-10-29T02:44:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > How did the rest of humanity figure out how to stop violence? The guns-for-all people have lately been using two dishonest tactics to muddy the waters: 1. Equating not having a gun with being unarmed and vulnerable. This is untrue for anyone who takes a second to think about it. 2. Using “violence” statistics to rebutt “shooting” statistics. The two are not the same issue, although they may be related. When the thread is about mass shooting (or any kind of shootings) in the USA the issue with is guns not violence. The rest of the world may also have violence but we don’t have mass gun shootings to nearly the same extent. Pay attention. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/63 "2018-10-29T03:30:07Z")
Apologies for being snippy and/or snappy. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/64 "2018-10-29T03:50:35Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Apologies for being snippy and/or snappy. Speaking for myself, no problem. I’m feeling a little snippy myself this weekend. ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Nonesutch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@Royal\_Nonesutch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Nonesutch)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/65 "2018-10-29T13:49:11Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > So if the bigger congregations get armed security, they being able to afford it, the jerks would move to smaller venues. Not every congregation, of any flavor, can afford that kind of security. I certainly do understand that not all churches, mosques, synagogues, etc. either want nor can have access to (if so desired) an armed security or police presence, and I also understand that in a perfect world none of those places would ever NEED it, but with the abundance of guns in the USA, I just can’t see how security for those places who want it is a stupid or offensive idea. If was in charge of a huge castle that had 500 different doors and windows, not all of which have locks, just because I can’t secure them all isn’t a reason to leave the ones with locks wide open. I am new around here, I am not living in the United States currently, and so with that I will bow out of this discussion except to add that I wish the best for all of the survivors of the evil, cowardly and tragic attack in Pittsburgh. America is an amazing country, but even the best places are far from perfect, and evil extremism knows no nationality, religion or culture. ---
**Author:** ![Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shinna_Minna_Ma)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/66 "2018-10-29T14:49:19Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > And the current buffoon in the White House isn’t aware that not only are weapons not permitted in synagogues, but it’s also forbidden to be armed on the Sabbath. Dumbass. I don’t know where you came up with this wild idea, but it’s certainly far from the truth. I live in Israel. There are armed synagogue attendees all the time. My son-in-law is always carrying. There are some smaller towns and settlements that have rapid response teams, and they are weaponized all the time, including during weekday services, Shabbat services, and holiday services. This includes Yom Kippur. ---
**Author:** ![Mithras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Mithras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mithras)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/67 "2018-10-29T19:00:41Z")
[Peduto on potential presidential visit: Wait until after the funerals.](https://triblive.com/local/allegheny/14226791-74/peduto-on-potential-presidential-visit-wait-until-after-the-funerals) > [@](#): > > Pittsburgh Mayor Bill Peduto Monday said President Trump should hold off on visiting Pittsburgh until after the funerals of 11 people killed Saturday in the Tree of Life Synagogue. > > The White House later revealed in a press conference that the president plans to visit the city on Tuesday. > … > Peduto said he met with several victims’ families, but declined to share their sentiment on a Trump visit. > > “I’m not their spokesperson,” he said. “I will let them express their concerns.” ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/68 "2018-10-29T19:22:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > or members of the congregation with a CCW license and regular upkeep at the range. It’s not that hard to consistently group 3 rounds on a target. At least when the target isn’t shooting back, and you have time to calmly identify the target. Have you seen the statistics for how many rounds trained police officers put on target in real life? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/69 "2018-10-29T19:36:45Z")
The former president of the synagogue says Trump is not welcome. > **[Former president of Pittsburgh synagogue says Trump not welcome: ‘He is the...](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/413583-former-president-of-pittsburgh-synagogue-says-trump-not-welcome-he-is/)** > > The former president of Pittsburgh’s Tree of Life synagogue, where 11 people were killed on Saturday in a mass shooting, said Monday that President Trump is not welcome in Pittsburgh.{mosads}Lynnet… ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Nonesutch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@Royal\_Nonesutch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Nonesutch)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/70 "2018-10-29T20:30:42Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The former president of the synagogue says Trump is not welcome. > [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/413583-former-president-of-pittsburgh-synagogue-says-trump-not-welcome-he-is](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/413583-former-president-of-pittsburgh-synagogue-says-trump-not-welcome-he-is) So if I understand this correctly, according to your link, the current rabbi and acting spiritual leader of the congregation in question has explicitly made it clear that Pres. Trump is indeed welcome to visit the synagogue, but a former employee, who is no longer employed by the synagogue or officially connected with it in any way takes it upon herself to proclaim that Trump is not welcome and somehow her statement is what is considered headline worthy. A seemingly oddly slanted article, but then again I am (thankfully) a long way, both physically and emotionally from the poisonous political atmosphere of 2018’s USA. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/71 "2018-10-29T23:58:11Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > The guns-for-all people have lately been using two dishonest tactics to muddy the waters: > > 1. Equating not having a gun with being unarmed and vulnerable. This is untrue for anyone who takes a second to think about it. > > 2. Using “violence” statistics to rebutt “shooting” statistics. The two are not the same issue, although they may be related. When the thread is about mass shooting (or any kind of shootings) in the USA the issue with is guns not violence. The rest of the world may also have violence but we don’t have mass gun shootings to nearly the same extent. > > Pay attention. It was an honest question. I left out any reference to guns for a reason. You made a claim the world outside the US possesses knowledge on how to stop violence. No Snark. Lay out your cards. We need an answer. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/72 "2018-10-30T00:29:28Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > At least when the target isn’t shooting back, and you have time to calmly identify the target. Do you think the congregation had problems identifying the target? > [@Folacin](#): > > Have you seen the statistics for how many rounds trained police officers put on target in real life? Have you seen statistics on how many rounds the police put on target in the first 5 minutes of an attack? People defend themselves all the time in real life. It could be with a knife, a metal pipe or a gun. There are really only 2 choices while waiting on the police in such a situation. Defend yourself or die. There’s no Clint Eastwood bravado involved. It’s a scared person facing death against a madman intent on killing. It’s beyond sad that a congregation should come under threat. It’s even sadder when the next gathering of the congregation is at a funeral. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/73 "2018-10-30T00:51:47Z")
You know, there are other fora for your witnessing, Magiver. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/74 "2018-10-30T01:22:28Z")
**Royal Nonesutch** , she didn’t say the president wasn’t welcome at the synagogue, but she wouldn’t welcome him to the _city_. Trump isn’t exactly all that popular around here. At the very least, we’d appreciate it, if, when he DOES come here, he doesn’t start in on how we need more guns, or how it’s the media’s fault. > [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](#): > > I don’t know where you came up with this wild idea, but it’s certainly far from the truth. I live in Israel. There are armed synagogue attendees all the time. My son-in-law is always carrying. There are some smaller towns and settlements that have rapid response teams, and they are weaponized all the time, including during weekday services, Shabbat services, and holiday services. This includes Yom Kippur. If I’m wrong, I apologize, but I swear I read somewhere that there are only special circumstances that allow carrying on the Sabbath. Information on the internet seems mixed. Where do you live in Israel, though – Squirrel Hill generally isn’t known for being a violent part of town. Also, keep in mind, four of the victims were police officers. Being armed certainly didn’t help them. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/75 "2018-10-30T01:40:22Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Squirrel Hill generally isn’t known for being a violent part of town. Also, keep in mind, four of the victims were police officers. Being armed certainly didn’t help them I think it helped them a great deal. All 4 of them are alive. Those intent on a peaceful existence were less fortunate. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/76 "2018-10-30T01:44:24Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > You know, there are other fora for your witnessing, Magiver. You’re welcome to bring your tablets down from the mount. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/77 "2018-10-30T03:18:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I think it helped them a great deal. All 4 of them are alive. Did they, like, deflect the incoming bullets with their guns? Because otherwise, I’m not clear on how having a gun changed “getting killed” to just “getting wounded.” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/78 "2018-10-30T03:26:54Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Did they, like, deflect the incoming bullets with their guns? Because otherwise, I’m not clear on how having a gun changed “getting killed” to just “getting wounded.” They shot the shooter. This is what ended it. You must have known this before posting. If you want to claim their guns made no difference then provide an argument toward that claim. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/79 "2018-10-30T03:35:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I think it helped them a great deal. All 4 of them are alive. Those intent on a peaceful existence were less fortunate. Well, I’m sure that’s a comfort to the rest of the victims. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591/80 "2018-10-30T04:00:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I think it helped them a great deal. All 4 of them are alive. Those intent on a peaceful existence were less fortunate. Because the gun lobby has made sure that getting guns is easy; these people are the latest human sacrifices to the cult of the gun. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-shooting-at-synagogue-in-pittsburgh/823591.md?page=5)