# Breaking news: terrorists attack French publisher, 11 dead. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 7, 2015, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213 "2015-01-07T12:32:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/281 "2015-01-09T12:53:52Z")
So now there are two standoffs. The murderer who shot the policewoman yesterday is trapped, also in a potential hostage situation. Reports (for whatever the accuracy of early reports may be) are that that shooter is connected to the two cornered near the airport. I can’t see either of these lasting long. The killers have got to be short on sleep, hungry, and running out of adrenalin. I only hope no more innocent people get harmed. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/282 "2015-01-09T13:11:34Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > Agreed. > > Not that JK Rowling ever came close to tackling Islam’s fragile ego, but when you refuse to speak a name or to treat any One religion the same way that you’d treat any Other religion, you give it undue (undeserved?) power. > No religion is better than any other religion (although the faithful of each may obviously think so). > > Treating any religion as too fragile to be able to withstand either humor or examination is to say in the same breath that it can’t be very much of a religion. My way of saying this is to point out that any God who needs human help to protect His dignity isn’t a very powerful God. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/283 "2015-01-09T13:22:02Z")
> [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](#): > > No it isn’t. Judaism, Islam, and Christianity are all bronze-aged perversions of reason and the world would be a better place if none of them existed. That is true everywhere. If you’re gonna play the “I’m so smart” card, at least get your facts straight Christianity is classical age. Islam, Middle Ages. Also, you do understand that, at least in the bronze age, the concept of “reason” as you accept it had not been invented, therefore it was imposible to pervert. > [@Locrian](#): > > The role of any religion is to deny progress, deny free thought, and to be used as justification for violent acts (Crusades, anyone?). It serves no other purpose to society but to limit society’s growth. That’s what we’re seeing here. I sure missed that memo and so did thousands or religious people who made great discoveries for science. If you don’t think that “reason” has not been used to justify violence then you show utter ignorance of history. In fact you, in the next paragrapgh, show how reason can be used to justify disenfranchising people. > [@](#): > > These Islam shitheads are beyond any help. No words, no reason, no thought interests them. You’re dead on sight. And they do this because of their backward shit Sharia. They deny progress and refuse to let it happen. And do not try to convince me that there are calm, moderate Islamists that are against this that make their religion or any religion okay. If your life and your decisions are based around silly superstitions like religion, why should you be trusted at all? I don’t think you should be allowed to run for office or vote when you need to pray 14 times a day, cover your body from head to toe, or be blessed by a priest for witch protection before you travel (Palin). I get that you’re in favor of disenfranchising people you don’t like. > [@](#): > > As others have pointed out, why does a cartoon send someone to into apeshit mode? And they’ve got thousands of supporters on line for this? Answer=Religion. If I went to apeshit mode whenever I see Yosemite Sam, would I get any supporters for that? Nope. Why? 'Cause there’s no religion that worships Yosemite Sam (AFAIK) that demands 5,000 year-old rules and laws around this blue ball. Well, using the powers of reason I’ll be at you mom’s funeral chanting “she is rotting, worms are gonna eat her body” because reason, you know, it’s true. You won’t go apeshit if someone tells the truth. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/284 "2015-01-09T13:23:16Z")
To the extant that dictionaries are useful in message board arguments at all, if the language is English the Oxford English Dictionary is the only definitive cite, IMHO. And even the OED is not without it’s problems. I believe the general rule of thumb is if you are resorting to dictionaries to support arguments that aren’t about dictionaries you’ve lost the argument. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/285 "2015-01-09T13:28:15Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > So now there are two standoffs. The murderer who shot the policewoman yesterday is trapped, also in a potential hostage situation. > . In a kosher shop. Two killed, several hostages apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/286 "2015-01-09T13:32:20Z")
> [@Lobot](#): > > Fair enough. I retract my snark. Those sort of incidents aren’t nearly as common with Christians, it seems, but… > > Maybe there’s just something rotten at the core of all Abrahamic faiths. I’m kind of sympathetic to Dawkins’ sentiments. Good thing atheists are never violent, and when they are it’s never because they are atheists or they never were really atheists. Never happened, ever, at all. Atheists have a perfect record. Never have reason, rationality, and science been used to justify murders; not a single time…because, when they have, it’s just an excuse or perversion. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/287 "2015-01-09T13:43:07Z")
I don’t think there’s anything at all special about the tenets of Islam that make a larger percentage of Muslims violent or supporters of violence, even though that’s a fact. There were times in the past that Christianity and other religions were as violent or more violent, statistically speaking (most likely, considering that we can’t get good stats on beliefs in the past), as modern Muslims. There were times when Islam was much more a force for progress than contemporary Christianity (and vice versa). So I think it’s mostly a historical coincidence. It’s not anything special about Islam – it’s something special about some of the countries and regions in which Islam dominates. ---
**Author:** ![Oukile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@Oukile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oukile)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/288 "2015-01-09T13:43:43Z")
\*\*Guys, this is the Pit here, not GD. \*\* So what about you all STFU with your pointless debating about islam and atheism and liberalism and whatever and let us vent (or post info) about what is happening? Thanks Oukile (who also happens to be French) ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/289 "2015-01-09T13:49:06Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Good thing atheists are never violent, and when they are it’s never because they are atheists or they never were really atheists. Never happened, ever, at all. Atheists have a perfect record. Never have reason, rationality, and science been used to justify murders; not a single time…because, when they have, it’s just an excuse or perversion. Awwww… somebody just discovered sarcasm! _\_ ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/290 "2015-01-09T13:50:52Z")
And now Le Pen (the father) is [memeing](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B66YyQ9CAAEfgow.png), so we’ve reached peak what the fucking christ. We’re gonna have a _great_ year, I tell ya. And it’s gonna be awesome to be brown in France, too ! ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/291 "2015-01-09T14:07:08Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Awwww… somebody just discovered sarcasm! _\_ You, on the other hand, continue with your long history of stupidity—good for you. > [@Kobal2](#): > > And now Le Pen (the father) is [memeing](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B66YyQ9CAAEfgow.png), so we’ve reached peak what the fucking christ. > We’re gonna have a _great_ year, I tell ya. And it’s gonna be awesome to be brown in France, too ! It’s not like being Brown was rainbows and candy in France before that. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/292 "2015-01-09T14:21:38Z")
> [@Oukile](#): > > \*\*Guys, this is the Pit here, not GD. \*\* So what about you all STFU with your pointless debating about islam and atheism and liberalism and whatever and let us vent (or post info) about what is happening? > > Thanks > > Oukile (who also happens to be French) No. Seriously, though; hijacking Pit threads to flog our pet causes is _what we do_ around here. El\_Kabong (who also happens to be a cartoon horse) ---
**Author:** ![scrotchy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@scrotchy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scrotchy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/293 "2015-01-09T14:29:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t think there’s anything at all special about the tenets of Islam that make a larger percentage of Muslims violent or supporters of violence, even though that’s a fact. There were times in the past that Christianity and other religions were as violent or more violent, statistically speaking (most likely, considering that we can’t get good stats on beliefs in the past), as modern Muslims. There were times when Islam was much more a force for progress than contemporary Christianity (and vice versa). > > So I think it’s mostly a historical coincidence. It’s not anything special about Islam – it’s something special about some of the countries and regions in which Islam dominates. I suggest you read up on sharia law, and research social studies and polls about the support of sharia law within the various Muslim countries. “Progressive” Muslims are in fact in violation of sharia law, which is still greatly supported in many countries and by Muslims around the world, not restricted by borders. Of course other religions can be dissected from their inception, but most of those have evolved into modern liberal western democracy with of course infrequent exceptions from time to time. There are large percentages of Islam followers and in fact countries that have not evolved, which is the basis of the problems we see nowadays with these terrorists acts. The basic tenets of Islam are not compatible with western liberal democracy. The problem is these basic tenets have not been formally put in the past, and instead is many countries and cultures are still practiced. Continuing to write these acts off as deranged small subsets of that religion does not address the basic problem of silent support of these acts per Sharia law, which is supported by millions. Just because the large majority of Muslims would not commit these acts does not mean they do not agree with acts such as ‘avenging the prophet’. Only until some of the basic tenets of Islam are rejected by the overwhelming majority, which in turn results in certain members literally carrying out these acts, will this terrorism diminish. I’m talking about countries rejecting the shitty treatment of women and their place in society as ‘property’, instead of this shitty treatment being the law of the land. Until things like ‘stoning’ for adultery are formally rejected these things will keep happening. Until the respect for freedom of speech is ingrained, instead of millions throwing a shit fit when they get ‘offended’ and then a subset of that anger vows ‘revenge’ for a fucking cartoon, book, or article, this will keep happening. That evolution will not happen in our lifetime, so just keep your above post to cut and paste excusing this BS for the rest of your life, instead of calling out the accountability where it belongs. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/294 "2015-01-09T14:40:29Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > When leaders of Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, etc. make a statement that condemns these actions, I may be impressed. OK friend, here goes: > [@](#): > > Saudi Arabia called it a “cowardly terrorist attack that was rejected by the true Islamic religion”. […] Iran, Jordan, Bahrain, Morocco, Algeria and Qatar all issued similar statements. From [here.](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/07/charlie-hebdo-killings-arab-states-jihadi-extremist-sympathisers-isis) Impressed yet? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/295 "2015-01-09T14:46:43Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > You can’t be racist against a religion you fucking morons. What race is Islam? Are all people of that race Islamic? Is it a racial trait, encoded in your genetics somewhere? > > Islam is a religion, a belief system, something that dictates how you live your life. How in the world can a belief system be immune from criticism? Or automatically accused of being bigoted for criticizing it. Am I racist if I criticize the anti-vax movement? Are anti-vax retards a race? > > I’m so fucking sick of the liberal douchebag apologists who, ironically, feel totally at home to criticize Christianity, but then the fucking FORBIDDEN THOUGHT alarm goes off on their head if anyone gives Islam the same treatment. And I’m not saying that as a butthurt pseuedo-oppressed Christian, since I’m quite clearly not religious. I’m saying that as someone who fucking hates the weenie apologists who come out of the woodwork to make it their full time job to reassure everyone only a tiny minority of Muslims are the cause of all the problems, and all true Scotsman Muslims are really good people and blah blah. > > If the Aztec religion were still around today, and still fucking sacrificing virgins and ripping people’s beating hearts of their chest, you’d be on here full time saying “no religion is better than any other, most aztecs are fine people, all the people of other religions are just as bad” and all that other bullshit. > > There’s a pretty much an unfailing correlation between how much a culture embraces Islam and how fucking backward and barbaric and shitty it is. What’s the least shitty Muslim-dominated place? Turkey? Yes, exactly, because they have a long tradition of secularism and trying to keep the fanaticism of their Islam in check. > > Now you could say you could read anything into a religion, and it’s the culture that determines how people act on their religion. Fine. Who cares? Then the cultures are shitty. Cultures are still not races. An Arab or Indonesian or whatever the fuck you think people are being racist against raised by wolves does not adopt Islam as some sort of fucking racial trait. > > “Racism” is an extremely easy card to play. It doesn’t take any thought on your part, and we’re so programmed to run and hide at the very idea of racism that people don’t do a good job of clarifying nor listening to that clarification. It’s a trump card for morons. But there’s an easy guide to see if a potential claim is racist: Does it suppose that there’s a trait that’s determined biologically by someone’s race? No? Then it’s not fucking racist. > > Islam is practiced by people of different races all across the world. It’s shitty everywhere. You are all mentally weak if you interpret criticizism of a belief system and a way of life as bigotry. +1 > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > A distinction without a difference. “Judaism is shitty everywhere” is bigoted, as is “Jews are shitty everywhere”, or something similar. Same for Christianity and Christians, same for Islam and Muslims. Dead wrong. I can think Christianity is a shitty belief system without thinking that my girlfriend is a bad person for being a catholic. Similarly, I think Islam is a toxic, dangerous ideology that we’d all be significantly better off without. This doesn’t mean I want all Muslims to convert or die. (Well, okay, I’d _like_ for them to convert, but I’m not going to demand it of them.) > [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Why should I believe it would be worse if my entire city were Muslims? …Really? I’ll give you a hint - the majority of places with a Muslim majority? They don’t look so good. The radicals have this weird tendency to take hold. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What are the options? Random Muslim city, random Christian city, random Hindu city, etc.? If so, who knows what the percentages would be – probably pretty shitty for Muslim, Christian, and Hindu cities, Some locales where Christians are a massive supermajority: - New York City - Boston - Los Angeles - San Francisco (okay that one might be pushing it) - Kansas City - Portland, ME …I mean, sure, there’s _Detroit_, but that’s not a post-apocalyptic shithole because of radical Christians coming in and ruining everything. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > What is wrong with that dictionary? Trying to prove something by defining your terms is kind of a complete waste of time? Seriously, trying to demonstrate “this criticism is racist” by pointing to a certain dictionary definition of “race” ignores completely that in rejecting your definition of “racist”, the person you’re arguing has clearly also rejected your definition of _“race”_. So stating your definition of race just means talking past each other. …That, and Merriam-Webster is a piece of shit. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/296 "2015-01-09T14:58:16Z")
> [@scrotchy](#): > > I suggest you read up on sharia law, and research social studies and polls about the support of sharia law within the various Muslim countries. “Progressive” Muslims are in fact in violation of sharia law, which is still greatly supported in many countries and by Muslims around the world, not restricted by borders. > > Of course other religions can be dissected from their inception, but most of those have evolved into modern liberal western democracy with of course infrequent exceptions from time to time. There are large percentages of Islam followers and in fact countries that have not evolved, which is the basis of the problems we see nowadays with these terrorists acts. The basic tenets of Islam are not compatible with western liberal democracy. The problem is these basic tenets have not been formally put in the past, and instead is many countries and cultures are still practiced. > > Continuing to write these acts off as deranged small subsets of that religion does not address the basic problem of silent support of these acts per Sharia law, which is supported by millions. Just because the large majority of Muslims would not commit these acts does not mean they do not agree with acts such as ‘avenging the prophet’. Only until some of the basic tenets of Islam are rejected by the overwhelming majority, which in turn results in certain members literally carrying out these acts, will this terrorism diminish. > > I’m talking about countries rejecting the shitty treatment of women and their place in society as ‘property’, instead of this shitty treatment being the law of the land. Until things like ‘stoning’ for adultery are formally rejected these things will keep happening. Until the respect for freedom of speech is ingrained, instead of millions throwing a shit fit when they get ‘offended’ and then a subset of that anger vows ‘revenge’ for a fucking cartoon, book, or article, this will keep happening. That evolution will not happen in our lifetime, so just keep your above post to cut and paste excusing this BS for the rest of your life, instead of calling out the accountability where it belongs. All this is fine (minus the insults) – I just don’t think it’s anything special about Islam or Sharia that’s driving it… just as there was nothing special about Christianity or Christian theocracies that drove the atrocities and misogyny of past centuries in Christian lands. There’s no “true” form of Islam that demands violence, just as there was no “true” form of Christianity that demanded the Inquisition, Jewish pogroms, burning witches, etc. All these texts are interpreted in different ways. The fanatics suck. I’m not a fan of religion in general, but it’s the fanatics that cause most of the violence, not the religious as a group. I argue this both to try to be accurate and to be pragmatic. I think the best way to deal with this issue is to call out the bad actors while not lumping in those who aren’t trying to kill us. Terrorism isn’t caused by, for example, poor treatment of women – there are plenty of places on earth in which women are treated like shit but that produce relatively few or zero terrorists. I think rolling up all these issues can make things more difficult and more complicated, not more simple. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/297 "2015-01-09T15:00:42Z")
[QUOTE=Aji de Gallina] It’s not like being Brown was rainbows and candy in France before that. [/QUOTE] Church. Which is why I’m already dreading the coming months, where the usual shit is gonna be cranked up to 11, all day, every day. Sometimes I love my country. This is not one of those times. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/298 "2015-01-09T15:03:24Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Dead wrong. I can think Christianity is a shitty belief system without thinking that my girlfriend is a bad person for being a catholic. Similarly, I think Islam is a toxic, dangerous ideology that we’d all be significantly better off without. This doesn’t mean I want all Muslims to convert or die. (Well, okay, I’d _like_ for them to convert, but I’m not going to demand it of them.) I agree with those statements, but “Islam is shitty everywhere” is still both bigoted and factually incorrect, in my opinion. Those are saying different things, from what I can see. The “everywhere” takes it out of the realm of discussions of ideology, and into the realm of meatspace. > [@](#): > > Some locales where Christians are a massive supermajority: > > - New York City > - Boston > - Los Angeles > - San Francisco (okay that one might be pushing it) > - Kansas City > - Portland, ME Those are some of the good ones. There are probably more “nice” Christian-dominated cities than Muslim-dominated cities. But there are still tons and tons of “not nice” Christian cities. Have you ever been to San Pedro Sula? I have. I’d much rather spend time in Istanbul or Kuala Lumpur. So I’ll accept that the percentage probably looks better for Christian cities than Muslim cities, but I bet they’re both pretty low. Shinto looks much, much better. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/299 "2015-01-09T15:03:33Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > I see we are getting the whole “Muslims aren’t a race”, " a religion can’t be a race", “Indian isn’t a race” thing again. I swear we should have a sticky about this. > > As this is an American board I shall defer to Merriam Webster: > > [Race Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/race) That’s the dumbest definition of race I’ve ever seen. By that definition, Dallas Cowboys fans are a race, and if you hate the Dallas Cowboys, you’re a racist. You can’t seriously think that’s a good definition of race. You think Muslims from Morocco, Afghanistan, and Indonesia are the same race? Are catholics from El Salvador, Ireland, and subsuharan Africa the same race too? Hipsters are a race by that definition, for fucks sake. You can’t possibly be serious with that bullshit. If Muslims and Cowboys fans and hipsters are all a race, the term is meaningless and you’re stupid for bringing it into the thread as if it were an actual argument. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t think there’s anything at all special about the tenets of Islam that make a larger percentage of Muslims violent or supporters of violence, even though that’s a fact. Have you arrived at this conclusion through study, or because that’s the result you want? You, more than anyone else in the thread, exemplify the the desperate “all sides are equal guys!” bullshit apologist stance that I’ve been railing against. I have no doubt that if you had two hypothetical religions - one which said “our main tenet is to not cause any harm to anyone” and the other that said “subjugate everyone, kill all non-believers”, you’d be saying that all religions are equal and there’s nothing particularly violent about the latter. Let’s not compare Christianity and Islam for a moment. Let’s compare Buddhism and Islam. Do these religions encourage violence equally? Would you say that Buddhism and Islam are both peaceful religion, and only fanatics corrupt their teachings to commit violence, and both are equal in that regard? Your beliefs are determined through what you want the world to be, not what it is. You are immune to facts in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/300 "2015-01-09T15:08:00Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Have you arrived at this conclusion through study, or because that’s the result you want? You, more than anyone else in the thread, exemplify the the desperate “all sides are equal guys!” bullshit apologist stance that I’ve been railing against. I have no doubt that if you had two hypothetical religions - one which said “our main tenet is to not cause any harm to anyone” and the other that said “subjugate everyone, kill all non-believers”, you’d be saying that all religions are equal and there’s nothing particularly violent about the latter. > > Let’s not compare Christianity and Islam for a moment. Let’s compare Buddhism and Islam. Do these religions encourage violence equally? Would you say that Buddhism and Islam are both peaceful religion, and only fanatics corrupt their teachings to commit violence, and both are equal in that regard? > > Your beliefs are determined through what you want the world to be, not what it is. You are immune to facts in this regard. All sides aren’t equal. But there were times in which the Christian world was much, much more violent than both contemporary Islam and today’s Muslim world. I’m not as familiar with the history of the Buddhist world, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all to learn that there were times in which Buddhists were similarly as violent. This leads me to believe that the differences at varying times are due to reasons of society and history, and not the tenets of the religion involved. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213.md?page=16)