# Breaking news: terrorists attack French publisher, 11 dead. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 7, 2015, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213 "2015-01-07T12:32:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/321 "2015-01-09T16:26:18Z")
[10 insane right-wing reactions to the Charlie Hebdo massacre.](http://www.salon.com/2015/01/09/10_insane_right_wing_reactions_to_the_charlie_hebdo_massacre_partner/) ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/322 "2015-01-09T16:29:47Z")
> [@scrotchy](#): > > C’mon SB. It’s just a coincidence that Islam is the random religion intertwined into all of the modern terrorism and poverty infested backwards ass regions and countries. And Islam is just ‘misunderstood’ when women are beaten and stoned and treated like second class citizens. :rolleyes: Correlation is not causation. If you can show me these assholes would be less assholish if raised with a different faith, we’re in business. . ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/323 "2015-01-09T16:32:27Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Reports that the two brothers are dead, their hostage was rescued, some confusion at the supermarket. Ok, police confirmed, the two brothers are killed, the hostage-taker at the supermarket is dead too, police are leading hostages out of the supermarket, unknown if any were killed. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/324 "2015-01-09T16:34:39Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Correlation is not causation. If you can show me these assholes would be less assholish if raised with a different faith, we’re in business. > . There are lots of Christian Arabs who have immigrated to Western countries (there are even some Jewish Arabs who have). How much terrorism has been linked to them? There are also lots of Christian Arabs living in the Middle East. One can ask, for instance, if Christian women have it better than Muslim women there (I honestly don’t know). ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/325 "2015-01-09T16:36:04Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Is it a universal quality of poor countries to subjugate women, stone them to death for being raped, throw acid in their face for learning to read or daring to let the the sun fall on their fucking nose, persecute people from other religions, often in a violent way, and a whole myriad of other things that are quite common amongst the Muslim world? Do you think that if we ran a comparison of the entire world, and matched countries up based on poverty, income inequality, and warfare, that we wouldn’t find anywhere that was less shitty? Just wondering out loud here, is there the slightest possibility that the versions of Islam that have arisen in thoses places came about because of the shitty conditions and inequalities, rather than being the cause of them? Likewise, is it impossible that Islam has been co-opted in those locations to lend legitimacy to barbaric practices that already existed? It’s certainly not a universal quality of Islam to carry out such practices. I do hope we can at least agree on that. Notes: a) I’m a solid atheist; b) IMO all religions, including Islam, are based on ignorant superstition; c) I do not think all religions are equivalent in degree of harm, or lack of it, except perhaps for all of them being based on deep misunderstandings of how the world works. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/326 "2015-01-09T16:38:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > There are lots of Christian Arabs who have immigrated to Western countries (there are even some Jewish Arabs who have). How much terrorism has been linked to them? There are also lots of Christian Arabs living in the Middle East. One can ask, for instance, if Christian women have it better than Muslim women there (I honestly don’t know). Yah, I don’t know either. I’m not about to try to answer those questions, because the numbers are awfully hard to come by, and deeply tainted by all sorts of cultural and socioeconomic factors. Also, I’m certainly not arguing that religion has no role in behavior. Now, certainly, it’s very much a chicken-and-egg situation. . ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/327 "2015-01-09T16:45:39Z")
Looks like the hostages are ok. Good job the French cops. I hope it hurt before they slipped away. ---
**Author:** ![scrotchy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@scrotchy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scrotchy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/328 "2015-01-09T16:49:50Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Correlation is not causation. If you can show me these assholes would be less assholish if raised with a different faith, we’re in business. > . Give me a break. Why are so many of these ‘assholes’ Muslim? Did I miss the Christians and Buddhists flying planes into buildings and killing over cartoons? Did I miss the other countries whose governments are based upon a backwards ass religion, that has these types of retributions and fucked up thinking contrary to western democracy, as basic tenets? Eventually 2+2 is put together and a light comes on. I see you are not there yet. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/329 "2015-01-09T16:50:39Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > Looks like the hostages are ok. > > Good job the French cops. I hope it hurt before they slipped away. Good to hear, if they got 'em with no further harm to hostages. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/330 "2015-01-09T16:53:43Z")
> [@scrotchy](#): > > Give me a break. Why are so many of these ‘assholes’ Muslim? Did I miss the Christians and Buddhists flying planes into buildings and killing over cartoons? Did I miss the other countries whose governments are based upon a backwards ass religion, that has these types of retributions and fucked up thinking contrary to western democracy, as basic tenets? > > Eventually 2+2 is put together and a light comes on. I see you are not there yet. Good luck. Can I ask, what are you personally doing to roll back the scourge of Islam? I mean, as strongly as you clearly feel, you must be doing _something_, right? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/331 "2015-01-09T16:59:31Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if by the end of the month (heck, by the end of the week) someone kills some random brown person “for being Muslim”. Of course, the victim will merely be brown, maybe even Christian. There’s already been a large number of random assaults (particularly on lone women, because courage I suppose), even shots fired. So far no lasting or permanent injury though, IIRC the worst so far is a high school kid who got badly pummelled by his classmates. And of course mosques across the country have been attacked, grenaded, firebombed, spray-painted, one even got a hog’s head nailed to the doors which I thought was a nice blend of medieval innovation and terminally assholish ignorance. On a more positive note one of the hostage-takers was black, thus we’ll likely be equal-opportunity cunts to minorities over the coming months. Wheee. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/332 "2015-01-09T17:03:06Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > On a more positive note one of the hostage-takers was black, thus we’ll likely be equal-opportunity cunts to minorities over the coming months. Wheee. Speaking of terminal ignorance, a couple of the CNN talking heads have referred to him as “the one of African descent.” ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/333 "2015-01-09T17:07:05Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Bro, do you even logic? Look, asshole. Fuck your condescension. I’m not an imbecile. > [@](#): > > Here’s the premise: Islam, as practiced in Saudi Arabia (and many other countries), has significantly contributed to Saudi Arabia being a shitty place for human rights in 2014. That premise is absolutely true. We can debate why Islam is practiced that way in Saudi Arabia (or, theoretically we could, if you knew anything about the history), but the basic premise is true. > > What does not follow is that all Muslims believe women are bad. Or that Christianity has done more good in the world than Islam. Or that Saudi Arabia or any other country would be better on human rights if Islam had never existed. Or that there would be less terrorism in the world if Islam had never existed. All of that is, at most, dubious, if not transparently false. It certainly does not follow from the premise. In my [first post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18039225&postcount=308) in this thread I largely _agreed_ with **Malthus** that “the change was based on factors having nothing to do with religion at all”. I never asserted your retarded “premise” in the first place. I’m not a Christian or follower of any organized religion; I think they’re all stupid and unnecessary. My objection was to the extreme forms of cultural relativism I see on this board, and specifically in this thread, on a regular basis. > [@](#): > > This shit isn’t that complicated. No duh, “bro”. ---
**Author:** ![scrotchy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@scrotchy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scrotchy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/334 "2015-01-09T17:10:24Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Can I ask, what are you personally doing to roll back the scourge of Islam? I mean, as strongly as you clearly feel, you must be doing _something_, right? I strongly feel what I know is the problem, the discussion of which is thwarted by this PC BS. Like the sasrcasm you spew here about ‘scourge’ that closes your eyes and mind. So WTF kind of question are you asking, and in all your wisdom what would you do? This is not an issue that individuals can solve. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/335 "2015-01-09T17:19:31Z")
> [@scrotchy](#): > > I strongly feel what I know is the problem, the discussion of which is thwarted by this PC BS. Oh! My humblest apologies. I didn’t realize we were discussing how you _feel_. Of course, it’s terribly important how you _feel_. By all means, let’s talk about that, instead of what you think you _know_. Which, clearly, is deeply flawed. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/336 "2015-01-09T17:24:30Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > Looks like the hostages are ok. May have spoke too soon. > [@](#): > > Four hostages are dead after French special forces stormed a building in eastern Paris where a terrorist, armed with an assault rifle, was holding a group of people captive, it has been reported. > **[Commandos storm Paris gunman at threatening to kill hostages](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2903380/Another-gunman-takes-hostage-kosher-grocery-Paris-police-fear-gunman-shot-dead-policewoman-yesterday.html)** > > A Islamic militant holding six people hostage is threatening to kill his captives if police attempt to storm the Charlie Hebdo terrorists currently engaged in a standoff with police. Fuck! ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/337 "2015-01-09T17:26:46Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > one even got a hog’s head nailed to the doors which I thought was a nice blend of medieval innovation and terminally assholish ignorance. Well, it could have been worse; they could have nailed a cow’s head to the door. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/338 "2015-01-09T17:30:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > There are lots of Christian Arabs who have immigrated to Western countries (there are even some Jewish Arabs who have). How much terrorism has been linked to them? There are also lots of Christian Arabs living in the Middle East. One can ask, for instance, if Christian women have it better than Muslim women there (I honestly don’t know). I’ve looked at the relevant opinion surveys a bit. The brief answer is that Christians are somewhat more liberal on sex/gender issues than Muslims, but the differences between countries are as significant as the differences between religions. In Lebanon, for example, all the major religious groups (Shia, Sunni, Catholic and Orthodox) are relatively tolerant; in Egypt, Christians as well as Muslims are very traditionalist. Lebanon, Syria and Egypt are really the only countries with large Christian populations anymore, and for obvious reasons they aren’t doing opinion polling in Syria. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/339 "2015-01-09T17:34:55Z")
> [@scrotchy](#): > > I don’t really see alot of insult here, except the last part where I noted you were excusing the basic problem. I’m new around here though I have read the forum for about 3 years…this is the pit I believe so feel free to not waste bandwidth pointing out subtle jabs that actually should have been more aggressive. You are clueless but of course you are not alone, which enables this BS to continue instead of the world community having a real discussion about the basic problem here. > > There are COUNTRIES that have sharia law and the basis of their government right fucking now. The ‘fanatics’ are given cover and strength in their conviction by this fact. > > I also wrote that other religions have their own past, but they have evolved. You pointing out that the crusades happened, for example, has nothing to do with this discussion about the real time problem. > > Why don’t you do some research like I suggested. The fact you say ‘there is nothing special about sharia law’ shows you don’t know WTF you are talking about. Maybe you should purchase a plane ticket to Saudi and hang out there for awhile, then report back how there is nothing special about Islam vs human rights and western democracy. If you think there’s just one kind of sharia law, then you’re wrong. Some countries base their government on a specific interpretation of sharia, but that’s not the same sharia that other countries and other Muslims follow. What you’re describing includes certain aspects and sects of Islam, but not Islam as a whole. Islam as a whole is very diverse, and the fanatics are not somehow better Muslims than the liberal ones. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/340 "2015-01-09T17:35:22Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Correlation is not causation. If you can show me these assholes would be less assholish if raised with a different faith, we’re in business. > . I’m curious: how would someone show this, in your opinion? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213.md?page=18)