# Breaking news: terrorists attack French publisher, 11 dead. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 7, 2015, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213 "2015-01-07T12:32:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/81 "2015-01-07T20:43:23Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I wouldn’t put Ingraham’s position so (ironically) PC. She doesn’t like immigrants. The struggle is that too many are there and they aren’t being forced to assimilate, according to her views. Those are the exact opposite things that need to happen, the French should embrace their Muslim population and help them to carve out their own unique niche in French society Yes, I have little doubt her views are a bit more extreme than I described. However, from the quotes ascribed to her in the given article I dont think she was completely wrong on this issue. An issue that is not settled in any modern State and which the greatest minds in the Western world have still completely to come to terms with. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/82 "2015-01-07T20:44:05Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > And the professional trolls are appearing. Didn’t “doctor” Laura use up her fifteen minutes of fame years ago? Laura Ingraham != Laura Schlesinger. Schlesinger is a Ph.D., Ingraham is a JD. If your scare quotes are implying that Dr. Laura is not a legitimate Ph.D., you are wrong. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/83 "2015-01-07T20:45:09Z")
Kudos for Post #78. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/84 "2015-01-07T20:47:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Laura Ingraham != Laura Schlesinger. Schlesinger is a Ph.D., Ingraham is a JD. > > If your scare quotes are implying that Dr. Laura is not a legitimate Ph.D., you are wrong. > > Regards, > Shodan Didn’t she have a radio program where she solved folk’s psychological problems by talking to them on the radio for five minutes? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/85 "2015-01-07T20:56:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Laura Ingraham != Laura Schlesinger. Schlesinger is a Ph.D., Ingraham is a JD. > > If your scare quotes are implying that Dr. Laura is not a legitimate Ph.D., you are wrong. > > Regards, > Shodan I think it the scare quotes were more about the lie of omission, that “Doctor” Laura’s PhD was in physiology, but she was using the title on a radio program acting as a psyhotherapist. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/86 "2015-01-07T20:58:17Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Which is it? Are Muslims predominantly onboard with violence and terrorism, or is it a religion of peace whose image is ruined by a few bad apples? A bit of a false dichotomy because a religion can be many different things to many different people. Unfortunately, right now, it would seem that most muslims are on board with capital punishment for blasphemy. That is not to say it is essential to that religion. Most Christians probably felt the same way 400 years ago, but not now. Islam needs a reformation, plain and simple. And it isn’t going to be fun to watch. > [@](#): > > I would suggest that if the entire Muslim world turned against the west, and radicalized and turned violent over some satire, then it is obviously mischaracterized by liberal apologists as being a religion of peace. > > To cave in and stop risking offending Muslims is anathemic to all of Western values. I was not suggesting we cave in. There is a difference between caving in and deliberately mass-producing stuff that is known to provoke violence for no reason other than to “stick it to them”. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/87 "2015-01-07T21:01:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Laura Ingraham != Laura Schlesinger. Schlesinger is a Ph.D., Ingraham is a JD. > > If your scare quotes are implying that Dr. Laura is not a legitimate Ph.D., you are wrong. > > Regards, > Shodan She’s a physiology Ph.D. posing as some kind of psychologist. The scare-quotes stay. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/88 "2015-01-07T21:18:57Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Didn’t she have a radio program where she solved folk’s psychological problems by talking to them on the radio for five minutes? > :dubious: My doctors at least have the decency to solve my problems by having their PA talk to me face-to-face for five minutes. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/89 "2015-01-07T21:20:25Z")
> [@bup](#): > > I think it the scare quotes were more about the lie of omission, that “Doctor” Laura’s PhD was in physiology, but she was using the title on a radio program acting as a psyhotherapist. No, she wasn’t. A radio call-in program is in no way psychotherapy. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/90 "2015-01-07T21:21:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Unfortunately, right now, it would seem that most muslims are on board with capital punishment for blasphemy. That is not to say it is essential to that religion. Most Christians probably felt the same way 400 years ago, but not now. Islam needs a reformation, plain and simple. And it isn’t going to be fun to watch. Things like the [Pew](http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/)study on attitudes toward sharia indeed reveal some seriously backward shit about the Muslim world. But I think there’s a big difference between checking the “strongly approve” box on a survey and actually going out and doing that thing. My WAG is that a vanishingly small percentage of actual blasphemy is punished by death in the Muslim world overall, though I’d welcome a cite showing otherwise. Surveying the landscape of commentary on today’s attack, I think people have lost perspective of what a real war with Islam would look like: shootings and bombings and attacks of this nature not a handful of times per year, but daily. If this is what the Western world under siege looks like, count me grateful. I haven’t seen anyone propose a serious plan that stands a chance to meaningfully reduce the occurrence of these attacks, which implies it may just be something we have to live unless anyone wants to go out and commit mass genocide of a billion people (which, in fact, some people I know do). ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/91 "2015-01-07T21:24:29Z")
Additional information, taken from an update to the website of the newspaper “Le Monde” made around 9:05 PM Paris time: "[LeMonde.fr](http://LeMonde.fr): De sources policières obtenues par Le Monde, les trois suspects de l’attaque ont été identifiés. " Translation: “Le Monde has obtained the information, from police sources, that the three suspects in the attack have been identified.” If that is so, and the ID is correct (and I consider “Le Monde” as a serious source of information)… Great!! Rather impressive to have ID’d the perps so soon. I guess that they were able to lift fingerprints from the getaway car(s) that got abandoned in the pursuit. If the ID was made through them, this means that the French police has those guys on file. From there it should be relatively straightforward to go on to known acquaintances and associates. This is a big leap forward. Incidentally, **Clairobscur** … I understand you live in Paris. If you have “fresher” information to share, I am sure it will be very welcome. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/92 "2015-01-07T21:31:42Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Because of this very surprising, unexpected news that a small number of radicalized Muslims express themselves in violence, you mean? Why else? And I wouldn’t call it very surprising or unexpected. France was expecting attacks. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/93 "2015-01-07T21:36:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Laura Ingraham blames Charlie Hebdo attack on France’s immigration policies.](http://www.salon.com/2015/01/07/this_is_pure_insanity_a_suicide_pact_laura_ingraham_blames_charlie_hebdo_attack_on_frances_immigration_policies/) This woman is totally off base in everything she wrote (immigration policies past and present, views of the elites past and present, multiculturalism). She obviously knows nothing about what she’s commenting and is talking out of her ass. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/94 "2015-01-07T21:41:51Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > Things like the [Pew](http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/)study on attitudes toward sharia indeed reveal some seriously backward shit about the Muslim world. But I think there’s a big difference between checking the “strongly approve” box on a survey and actually going out and doing that thing. My WAG is that a vanishingly small percentage of actual blasphemy is punished by death in the Muslim world overall, though I’d welcome a cite showing otherwise. Sure, but it’s also an indication of how many nod with approval when it’s actually done. State sponsored death for blasphemy would put that state in a difficult political position wrt its relation with other countries, so lesser penalties are more likely to be imposed. We’ve seen huge demonstration against the blasphemers, but not so much against the executioners. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/95 "2015-01-07T21:42:20Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Particularly this groups that are not eager to assimilate. Most of the guys who enlist into radical islamism in France seem to be from pretty well assimilated families. The parents barely ever enter a mosque, the son grows a beard and go to fight in Syria. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/96 "2015-01-07T21:53:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I was not suggesting we cave in. There is a difference between caving in and deliberately mass-producing stuff that is known to provoke violence for no reason other than to “stick it to them”. They think they can silence others through violence. If we cower away, and censor the images in question like the Telegraph disgustingly did, and stop speaking freely, we’re absolutely caving in to their demands. What better way to say “you’re not going to silence us, stop even bothering to try” than shouting whatever it is they’re so gravely offended by a million times louder, in complete solidarity with the entirety of the non-barbaric world? ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/97 "2015-01-07T21:54:45Z")
Watching France24 (French news TV channel). The police has apparently identified the three perps. French citizens from Argelian families that had been born and living in France their whole lives; two brothers in their 30s, and the third a young 18-year old man. Looking for them right now. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > They think they can silence others through violence. If we cower away, and censor the images in question like the Telegraph disgustingly did, and stop speaking freely, we’re absolutely caving in to their demands. > > What better way to say “you’re not going to silence us, stop even bothering to try” than shouting whatever it is they’re so gravely offended by a million times louder, in complete solidarity with the entirety of the non-barbaric world? FWIW, the Spanish satirical magazine “Mongolia” is going to reprint **every anti-ISIL cartoon ever printed by “Charlie Hebdo”**. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/98 "2015-01-07T22:12:59Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Why else? And I wouldn’t call it very surprising or unexpected. France was expecting attacks. Yes, that was my point. Nothing new or unexpected has happened here; there is no particular reason to think it would change the ratios of demonstrations. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/99 "2015-01-07T22:24:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There are trade-offs. This is obviously one of the downsides of unarmed police. But there are also downsides to armed police. I’m not sure which is better, and it may depend on local factors. > > Statistically, IIRC, France and Paris are very safe places compared to, say, the US and DC. Maybe the downsides to armed police are worth it here, but they might not be worth it there. The Germans seem to manage both very well armed police (even by US standards as some still have their MP5s available in their car.) Local factors obviously may play in to it. Some of the factors that may reduce use of deadly force by police (like a mostly disarmed populace) are the similar between Germany and France though. Even two typical US patrol officers would have been at a disadvantage in this situation. Maybe between them they have one shotgun or rifle in the car to supplement their pistols. That’s against three better armed terrorists. There’s still a disparity of force that favors the terrorists. The implications that two pistol carrying officers would have stopped this seems off base. The odds certainly would have been better if they’d had pistols instead of simply being able to observe and report though. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/100 "2015-01-07T22:27:30Z")
Breaking news from “France24”: Regarding the suspects, the two 30-something year olds are from Paris. The 18-year old is from Reims. Also, right now the police is carrying out a raid in Reims. No word from “France24” as to whether this has anything to do with the attack. Reims is 80 miles NE from Paris. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213.md?page=6)