# Breaking news: terrorists attack French publisher, 11 dead. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 7, 2015, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213 "2015-01-07T12:32:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/101 "2015-01-07T22:43:41Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Most of the guys who enlist into radical islamism in France seem to be from pretty well assimilated families. The parents barely ever enter a mosque, the son grows a beard and go to fight in Syria. Perhaps it is a reaction against their families assimilating. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/102 "2015-01-07T22:56:35Z")
Breaking news from “France 24”: The suspects have been ID’d and their names are known. According to “Ouest-France”, the suspects, during their flight, crashed their car and carjacked another one to keep fleeing… And they left behind a piece of ID in the crashed car (!!!) The two brothers are 32 and 34 years old. The youngest one was sentenced to jail when he was 22 for setting up a network to send jihadists to Iraq. He spent 6 years in jail. Both brothers had come back from Syria last summer, and apparently they were “known to the police” and had been under surveillance by the secret services. If the latter is true, it is obvious that somebody has dropped the ball, _badly_. The 18-year old seems to be a hanger-on, and rather pitiful at that. I would not be surprised at all if he was the driver of the getaway car and it was his ID that was found afterwards. Link to “Ouest-France” (in French): > **[Les trois suspects identifiés et traqués](https://www.ouest-france.fr/europe/france/attentat-charlie-hebdo-les-suspects-identifies-et-traques-3100041)** > > Selon différentes sources, les trois auteurs présumés de l'attentat contre Charlie Hebdo ont été identifiés. Des perquisitions seraient en cours, notamment à Reims. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/103 "2015-01-07T23:14:26Z")
Developments coming fast and furious, thanks **JoseB** … **clairobscur** , that American commentator just wants to score points for her vision of American immigration/sociocultural policy and never mind if the French situation really applies here or not. > [@clairobscur](#): > > Most of the guys who enlist into radical islamism in France seem to be from pretty well assimilated families. The parents barely ever enter a mosque, the son grows a beard and go to fight in Syria. > [@JoseB](#): > > Watching France24 (French news TV channel). The police has apparently identified the three perps. French citizens from Argelian families that had been born and living in France their whole lives; two brothers in their 30s, and the third a young 18-year old man. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Perhaps it is a reaction against their families assimilating. Yes, that does seem to be a pattern we have seen before. There is assimilation and then there is assimilation. I prefer the term “integration” or “incorporation” in the sense that the immigrant adapts to the new environment and becomes able to contribute to it on equal footing without necessarily being absorbed and rendered indistinct, nor having to just keep your head down and try to pass unnoticed. The new arrival should not be expected to flat out give up their identity but rather to adapt to the new home and, yes, follow the new home’s rules --\* but _those rules should also provide a path for acceptance and welcome. \* There has got to be something in it for you._ If no matter what your degree of adaptation to the adopted society, you are and always will be treated as an obvious “other” and never be a “real” Frenchman/Briton/German/etc ; then you can end up susceptible to the siren song of those who offer an ideology of hate disguised as “pride” or “faith”. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/104 "2015-01-07T23:34:12Z")
Geez how do they find them so fast? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/105 "2015-01-07T23:37:25Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Yes, that was my point. Nothing new or unexpected has happened here; there is no particular reason to think it would change the ratios of demonstrations. Sure it could. I keep hearing about “growing anti-semitism” (mostly among the growing Muslim population) and “growing anti-immigration” and “growing anti-islamization” so it seems reasonable attacks such as these could fuel growing anti-islamization. Why would it remain static? There is room for more growth. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/106 "2015-01-07T23:46:54Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Geez how do they find them so fast? Given that the suspects left behind an ID card in the car they crashed, that would be an obvious point to begin. I imagine that an immediate search for acquaintances and known associates would be launched. Then, it seems that the two brothers were known to the police (and that the youngest had spent 6 years in jail). It wouldn’t surprise me at all if they had also left fingerprints behind. Most likely it would not have been too hard to find them in the archives. I don’t know, but it does not surprise me too much. They had to abandon their getaway car in a great hurry, and didn’t have time at all to destroy any forensic evidence left behind. Also, It is likely that the French police has devoted _everything_ they have to deal with this case. It does not particularly surprise me that they are beginning to have results this fast. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/107 "2015-01-07T23:49:47Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Oh, apparently. Shocker. Yeah, could’ve been anyone. > > The only proper way to respond to this is for every sort of publication in the world - TV, newspapers, magazines, etc. to include some sort of satirical piece on Islam. Band together and show those fuckers that we’re together on this issue. And every fucking time they retaliate, do it for 10 times as long. Tit for tat, like children. Yes let us all stoop low.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/108 "2015-01-07T23:58:05Z")
Just saw on the news that 2 are in custody, and 1 is dead. Very glad that they got the assholes. I wonder if there are more accomplices. Was there a driver? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/109 "2015-01-07T23:58:22Z")
> [@Nema98](#): > > Tit for tat, like children. Yes let us all stoop low.:smack: Asserting your freedom of speech by continuing to make speech when someone is trying to terrorize you to silence you is “tit for tat” with murdering someone for some speech they made? If that speech is indeed tit for tat, then wouldn’t your line of argument assert that the cartoonists were the ones who committed the offensive speech, and the attackers were merely tit-for-tatting them? People try so hard to sound above the fray that they make the dumbest, most pathetic attempt at equivalencies. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/110 "2015-01-08T00:00:55Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > Given that the suspects left behind an ID card in the car they crashed, that would be an obvious point to begin. I imagine that an immediate search for acquaintances and known associates would be launched. > > Then, it seems that the two brothers were known to the police (and that the youngest had spent 6 years in jail). It wouldn’t surprise me at all if they had also left fingerprints behind. Most likely it would not have been too hard to find them in the archives. > > I don’t know, but it does not surprise me too much. They had to abandon their getaway car in a great hurry, and didn’t have time at all to destroy any forensic evidence left behind. > > Also, It is likely that the French police has devoted _everything_ they have to deal with this case. It does not particularly surprise me that they are beginning to have results this fast. I’m not surprised they identified them quickly, but it’s impressive they caught them quickly. Paris is a big area, with lots of hiding places. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/111 "2015-01-08T00:04:24Z")
> [@Nema98](#): > > Tit for tat, like children. Yes let us all stoop low.:smack: I would say that shooting a bunch of people is rather lower than publishing a satirical comic on Islam or the ISIL. I would not call that “tit for tat”. The “tat” is tremendously more evil and horrible than the “tit”. And if what those fuckers cannot accept is to be made fun of… Well, then it behooves us to **keep doing it**. As I mentioned earlier, the Spanish satirical magazine “Mongolia” is going to reprint every single comic that “Charlie Hebdo” had published making fun of ISIL and satirizing Islam. Be aware that “Charlie Hebdo” did not leave **anything** untouched. They satirized all “sacred cows” equally – and, in the same issue where they satirized Islam, they would also criticize savagely the LePenistes who attacked Moslems. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/112 "2015-01-08T00:09:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Just saw on the news that 2 are in custody, and 1 is dead. > > Very glad that they got the assholes. I wonder if there are more accomplices. Was there a driver? On “France 24” they haven’t said anything about that. They still say that the 3 suspects are being sought. Also, they say that there are only 3 suspects: two shooters and one driver. There might have been other accomplices who gave logistic support, but it seems nobody else was directly involved in the attack. > [@levdrakon](#): > > I’m not surprised they identified them quickly, but it’s impressive they caught them quickly. Paris is a big area, with lots of hiding places. The police raid (carried out by the French equivalent of SWAT teams) is not taking place in Paris, but Reims; it is a city located 80 miles northeast from Paris, and the place where the 18-year old was born. They have shown photos of police snipers posted around and aiming towards a block of flats. I will keep awake for a while more to see if they say something else, but it is more than 1am here already and I won’t be able to keep this up for much longer. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/113 "2015-01-08T00:21:05Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > The police raid (carried out by the French equivalent of SWAT teams) is not taking place in Paris, but Reims; it is a city located 80 miles northeast from Paris, and the place where the 18-year old was born. > > They have shown photos of police snipers posted around and aiming towards a block of flats. I will keep awake for a while more to see if they say something else, but it is more than 1am here already and I won’t be able to keep this up for much longer. I know. It’s in the news. If they ran right back to a location they could easily be connected with, I guess their capture isn’t super surprising. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/114 "2015-01-08T00:29:16Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Oh, it is soooo “partisan” to point out that policemen showed up at the scene, saw armed men and ran away. Yes, they ran away so fast that two of them got killed. You know, **Terr** , you’re a fucking asshole. You’re scum. You are a disease on this planet. Every single one of the people killed was ten times a better person than you are, and led a life that contributed immensely more to their society than you do. Why don’t you just crawl back under your rock, and luxuriate in the fetid ooze that informs your every thought. We won’t miss you. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/115 "2015-01-08T00:39:46Z")
> [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](#): > > Not true. Some religions are worse than others (no-one’s lying awake at night worrying about the Jains or the Quakers), and Islam is one of the worst we’ve got. Hey now, my Quaker combat training was thorough. We’re just biding our time before unleashing our gigawatt Coherent Inner Light death rays\*. \*1650s style. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/116 "2015-01-08T00:47:20Z")
Excellent interview with Australian cartoonist David Pope: > **[David Pope's Charlie Hebdo cartoon goes viral on social media](https://www.smh.com.au/national/act/david-popes-charlie-hebdo-cartoon-goes-viral-on-social-media-20150108-12jwtc.html)** > > Canberra Times cartoonist David Pope's pencil sketch in response to the Charlie Hebdo attack went viral on social... ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/117 "2015-01-08T00:50:44Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > Even two typical US patrol officers would have been at a disadvantage in this situation. Maybe between them they have one shotgun or rifle in the car to supplement their pistols. That’s against three better armed terrorists. There’s still a disparity of force that favors the terrorists. The implications that two pistol carrying officers would have stopped this seems off base. The odds certainly would have been better if they’d had pistols instead of simply being able to observe and report though. I am pretty certain “two typical US patrol officers” would not have run away. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/118 "2015-01-08T00:53:41Z")
**Terr** , some of us are interested in the events in France, not how they relate back to US political bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/119 "2015-01-08T00:54:01Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Yes, they ran away so fast that two of them got killed. Yes, the two that got killed were the armed police apparently. The ones that ran away were the unarmed ones. Not that I blame them - going unarmed against AK-47s is a bit much. I blame the rules that send them out unarmed. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213/120 "2015-01-08T00:55:55Z")
NBC news reported that 1 was killed and 2 in custody, but I haven’t heard that from other sources (like the Guardian’s live blog). Any other sources? I sure hope we got them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-news-terrorists-attack-french-publisher-11-dead/709213.md?page=7)