What’s that got to do with Muslim practices in the West ? Here people fast until nightfall (though a couple of my Muslim friends in college would sneak a Snickers bar here and there. Allah’s the all forgiving ;)), have a big meal and go to bed at their usual hours. And hell, if staying up a bit late is “sleep deprivation”, I shudder at the thought of what you must think of the average guy’s Friday night.
ETA: oh, and FWIW, Christians are supposed to fast during the 40 days of Lent too. So there’s that.
But not forced to, or even encouraged to. Not to mention, fasting is supposed to begin more or less around puberty, so “children” is a bit misleading in the first place.
Cite of such rulings being issued in the West.
If you go to fucked up places, surprise surprise, you’ll find fucked up practices. They’ll be justified in the name of Islam, or Christ, or Buddha, or tradition, or the FSM, or god knows what else. Laying it all on the Koran is not only short-sighted and simplistic, it’s stupid and flies in the face of facts.
Again, could you please point us to a Canadian or Dutch Imam calling for a stoning ?
Leaving aside the fact that you’ve just admittedly that you’ve made judgements about all Muslims based on how Islam is allegedly practiced in one of the poorest countries on earth(by such logic we should judge all Christians by how it’s practiced in Uganda) I wonder what makes you think people in Yemen suffer from sleep deprivation.
Could you provide some evidence for such an assertion.
Translation: they don’t have to. In fact, in Iran, hardly a bastion of moderate Islam, they’re not even encouraged to.
That said, thanks for basically admitting that your claims about them engaging in brainwashing was complete bullshit.
Oh God, I nearly pissed myself laughing at this.
Have you the slightest idea how foolish you look?
You’ve based your opinions about Muslims based on what you’ve observed in Yemen and yet you apparently are unaware that even in backward Yemen, those laws aren’t practiced.
Yes, there are a small number of Muslim countries that do commit such atrocities, but even the overwhelming majority which allow Sharia law don’t.
Look, you’ve revealed yourself to be horrifically ignorant about Islam so I’ll let you in on a secret.
What is and isn’t “Sharia” is very much open for debate. It is constantly evolving like Common law and as a result, the vast majority of countries that practice Sharia don’t do stuff like that.
You know, I’ve hung out with an awful lot of people observing Ramadan, and I’ve never noticed any of them failing to function properly. Obviously Ramadan’s a lot harder in the desert than in, say, Canada, but still, this is just silly.
I’m not sure why Christians would follow Jewish apostasy laws — presumably to kill people who leave Judaism? Wait, no, that can’t be right. Okay, sarcasm aside, the New Testament talks about apostates, and killing them is never on the table. You can leave Christianity out of that one. For that matter, neither Christianity nor Judaism has in the last several decades had anywhere near the same issues with apostates. There are a lots of cases of Orthodox oppressing (mostly Protestant) missionaries, but is there anything to match the Afghani trial of an ex-Muslim who had converted to Christianity? For that matter, are there any outright bans on proselytizing to match those in large swaths of the Muslim world?
I actually agree with you —Islam in Western countries is fairly moderate, and only getting more so with time. But that doesn’t mean that Islam and Judaism and Christianity are all in the same place at the same time.
Thomas Aquinas and St. Augustine would both disagree with you.
They certainly agreed that the killing of apostates was something that Jesus would approved of.
That’s not true at all.
Jesus famously proclaimed that they needed to follow every “jot and tittle” of the laws of Moses.
You’re certainly correct that for geopolitical reasons most of the Middle East is more backward than Europe, but you’ll notice that in Sub-Saharran Africa, both the Muslim and Christian parts are far more brutal towards gays, women and apostates.
I’m not aware of Iranians murdering “witches” but numerous Christians in Africa have done so.
The differences between who the Iranians and the French behave have nothing to do with scriptural differences between Islam and Catholicism and everything to do with the history of those two countries.
Because they do during the month of Ramadan. Or maybe it is a weird fucking coincidence that people are falling asleep at their desks and driving off the roads more during those times?
Never answered what percentage of the day they are required to spend on religion, huh? Didn’t think so. Repeated drilling of the doctrine into their heads is brainwashing. That it increases during a month long period where lack of food, water and sleep makes it even more effective. Even if the kids aren’t required to fast they are still subject to increased religious activities.
Sharia is practiced in Yemen. It is the basis for its laws, in fact. While the examples that I have stated are the extreme, the lesser affects of things like a women’s word is less than a man’s and other ridiculousness are apparent.
You’ve just stated my concern. It is open for debate. It is assumed that the Muslims who have emigrated to other countries are the peaceful non-fundamental kind who will implement the kinder gentler form of Sharia. I don’t know why we should make that assumption, but even if so, there is no guarantee that today’s mild Sharia won’t turn into tomorrows chopping people’s heads off version. Why cater to it at all?
There’s no guarantee that today’s allowing public prayer won’t turn into tomorrow’s Handmaid’s Tale-style society either. But your cherrypicking of some of the worst bits of Islam whilst waving away comparable bits of Christianity and Judaism does not suggest that you’re approaching any of this rationally.
Really? You talk about rationality while saying that I am waving away comparible bits of other religions when I haven’t done so. I am quite willing to state at this point in time some religions are worse than others. That is a comparative ranking where there is ‘bad’ and ‘not quite so bad, but still pretty damned bad’.
Where could you conceivably get the idea that just because I’m a detractor of one means that I’m a fan of the other?
Hey, question: Have you ever spent a month paying attention to what you eat, focusing inward, being with your family, and contemplating life’s lessons and values?
Probably not. I doubt you have that kind of mental skillset.
Stop knocking what you don’t understand.
Facts? That’s what we call Islamaphobia now?
I understand some Ottoman law is left over, and that Muslims generally have control over their own family law issues, but isn’t much of greater Israeli law based on western law and Jewish law?
Or maybe Jews and Muslims laid a pretty decent foundation for western civilization.
EGADS NO! Teaching your children about your culture! Stop the horror!
Yemen is not the greater Muslim world. The default sharia law in Yemen is just like English Common Law in the U.S. Which, not coincidentally, is based on religious doctrine.
Chopping off heads version? Should we not let the French govern themselves,
either?
Since you’re a product of the army, does that mean you’re an expert on indoctrination and drilling and we’re just ignorant to the rest of the world…?
Maybe because you’re using Yemen as an exemplar of True Islam whilst ignoring Christianity as practiced in, say, West Africa where they torture and kill young children for being “witches” or crucifixion going on in the Philippines or the Catholic Church’s coverup of child abuse or, well, these guys, while ignoring the fact that the vast number of Muslims are not brainwashed apostate-murdering drones-in-waiting but rather normal people going about their daily business and trying to understand their place in the universe like everyone else.
Yes, Islam has a violent crazy wing and those people are bad people who should be shunned but implying that everyone who isn’t like that should be treated as if they potentially are suggests an irrational bias. I don’t see you suggesting that we should treat all Catholics like pedophiles until we’re sure they’re not. That’s the bias I see, and the fact that your argument boils down to “I’m not biased against Muslims; it’s just that they’re worse than everyone else” while using a skewed set of criteria to show it makes it pretty obvious to everyone but yourself.
You are right. Saudi Arabia to the north of Yemen is decidedly more liberal in its approach to Islam:rolleyes:
How have I suggested we treat any Muslims at all? Please indicate where I’ve said to treat them any differently than any other citizen? Oh, wait, you can’t because I haven’t.
The only bias you see is in your own head. A bias against someone for calling something evil that clearly is so. And if it wasn’t a major religion, it would be ranked right up their with Scientology.
But to clarify, I am as against separate ‘courts’ based upon any religion. That is why we have a secular court. To handle things fairly with no regard to the religion you practice. I am against giving people exemptions, no matter how trivial, based upon their religion. They get treated as any other citizen.
The problem isn’t necessarily multiculturalism, it’s that they happen to have imported a hostile minority group who have a grudge against other groups.
