Breaking: Student tasered multiple times at UCLA library

The BBQ Pit
141

Wrong, “no resistance” is complying with the lawful order of the officer. Non-violent resistance is refusing to comply in a manner that is not physically threatening.

Sitting on your ass, refusing to move, after it’s been determined you are trespassing, and after being lawfully ordered to get up and leave, is resisting. Screaming like a stuck pig because they touched you, is resisting. Not doing anything doesn’t mean you’re not breaking the law, it just means you’re failing to act. Sometimes the law requires you to act, and the police are going to force your ass to act whether you like it or not.

Tasering is a way to get (some) people to act, without having to get in a physical confrontation that results in injury.

142

I repeat the question to those who are upset by this show of force. What would you have done? “Nothing,” is not an acceptable answer. You have to get this guy out of the library and he refuses to cooperate. We know what is unacceptable – the use of “excessive” force – but what would be an acceptable means to achieve your goal of removing the person from the premises? I’m really curious what you would do.

143

I hate jackbooted thugs as much as the next guy, but I am having a very difficult time blaming this on the cops. All of the requests made to this student before the use of force were legal, and his non-compliance was a violation. The student was being escorted from the library because he was in violation, and the campus police were obliged to eject him. The police were within their right to use minimal physical contact, and by yelling and refusing to move unless the police complied with his wishes, the student was clearly in the wrong. After that, the student was given ample warning. After being tased, he appears to have continued in his willful non-compliance. If he was coherent enough to hurl insults at the officers and make political statements, then he was, in all likelihood, able to get up on his feet and walk out, as he was ordered to do. By refusing the order, he was, again, resisting. It’s impossible to tell if he was resisting or not afterward, but given the loud yelling to get up, answered by more loud yelling, it sounds as if the student was still refusing to comply.

My take is the kid is responsible for the conflict, brought much of the force used against him on himself, and in addition deserves a stiff fine. I’d also consider suspension, if I were a school administrator, with forfeiture of credits and tuition for the semester. Refusing to comply with basic security measures, and resisting campus law enforcement, ought to be considered serious offenses, regardless of whether or not, at the end of the encounter, the police used excessive force. If it were not for the student’s idiocy and violation, no encounter would have occurred in the first place.

144

Sounds crazy, I know, but I would suggest that you “pick him up”, which is a weird euphemism for “perpendicularly elevate his personal centroid”, and then follow up with a vigorous application of “facilitate his personal egress from the facility”, which I guess you could abbreviate to “carry him out”.

Strangely, at no point do I feel compelled to electrocute the miscreant. Call me weird. Maybe we should stab him a bit? Geez, these lateral thinking problems are so hard.

Really sleeping now. Tutor group needs me. Not to electrocute them.

Maybe just a little bit, then.

145

It seems YOU’RE the one playing with words. It is not “electrocution”. Nobody is dying.

I think the word you mean is “shock” or maybe stun.
SHOCKING Definition & Usage Examples | Dictionary.com (American Heritage def 5)

It’s not torture. It’s not electrocution. And while I said it causes no injuries, I never suggested it caused no pain.

146

You keep doing that. Acting as if I am making up words to make things seem less devistating. Yet you use words that are make it seem far, far worse and more dramatic than it actually is.

I’m suprised you didn’t call it your nightly coma.

147

I had understood that they tried that and he confounded their efforts by squirming and so forth. It’s very difficult to carry an uncooperative but conscious and physically able adult. So you’re suggesting something that wouldn’t and didn’t work. So what next?

148

Do you people need fucking hearing aids?

He clearly says “I SAID I WOULD LEAVE!”

he says it twice quite loudly right about at the minute mark.

149

OK, I think I have read every post in this thread, but I must have missed something because AFAICT nobody has brought this point up yet: At the end of the video, the cops drag him out the door! Now why they could not do that six minutes earlier is not clear from the video.

Another thing I can’t believe has gone unmentioned: they tased this guy while he was handcuffed (3:15 on the video.) You are going to have a hard time convincing me that the guy posed a threat to them with his hands cuffed behind his back.

And I see no stairs in the video, just a ramp.

Although it’s hard to tell from the video, I would say that the cops were probably acting within acceptable procedure. But just because you can tase somebody under the rules, does not necessarily mean you should. I know a lot of taser-happy officers, and they never break the rules when they use it. But you would be amazed at how adept some officers that I know personally are at always finding themselves in situations where tasing is allowed. I can’t say for sure if these UCLA officers fit that description, but I suspect they do.

150

Arrested him and cuffed him? I mean, surely this is what police do all over the world thousands of times a day, y’know, without resorting to inflicting crippling pain on their suspects just on the off-chance they might get violent? Is it standard practice now to zap first and arrest later? If his offence isn’t grave enough to merit arrest, it sure isn’t grave enough to warrant hurting him.

It’d be nearly as bad if the police were using some kind of hypothetical, perfectly-safe knockout-gas. You don’t just go around incapacitating suspects - and it’s important to remember everyone’s a suspect until a judge/jury says otherwise - against the very small chance that this particular suspect might injure a policeman.

I consider it justified to shoot and potentially kill a person if that person is clearly a threat to the life of a police officer, and the use of a taser only marginally less grave. It’s not some happy-fun cattle-prod to jab at people to make sure they know who’s boss.

Would those in favour of this be okay with officers clubbing the suspect to ensure ‘compliance’? Is it just pain that’s okay, and not the possibility of injury? Because I just cannot see how you can consider the application of pain to ensure obediance is in any way okay, and not a very scary, slippery slope.

151

If they don’t like being cops they should quit and find another job.

Yes, being a cop requires very sound judgment and great self restraint. It’s not easy, and that’s the way that job is. Cops who don’t show sound judgment and self restraint are bad at their job. “It’s a hard job” is a stupid excuse.

152

If a couple a bouncers at a club can do it every fucking weekend, so can the police. C’mon, I love a good college student slapdown as much as the next guy, but this tasering seems a little excessive to me. Pin the guy down, slap some cuffs on him, and drag the fucker out.

153

Well, I’ve seen tasers used on distressed employees after getting laid off. It’s ugly to see, but I could sympathize with the security guys too – they were just doing their job. Armchair quarterbacking is easy. Dragging a grown man mid-tantrum down several floors ain’t easy.

Which isn’t to say the guys couldn’t have handled it differently. Just that I’m reluctant to cast the cops as evil pigs and the uncooperative kid as a hapless victim.

154

Well, maybe if this dude had been spanked a few times when he was a kid, he’d have learned that misbehavior has consequences.

155

Hmm, I must add something. For some reason, when I frist linked to a video, it was only 60-80 seconds in length. It did not show any use of force- I just heard it.

I linked into the YouTube version which showed 6-7 minutes. After review, I believe there are some concerns about tazing the subject because he will not stand up, although he is already restrained. There is indeed a way to carry a restrained, passively resistant suspect (safely). If, while trying to carry him, he became resistant (i.e. thrashing), it may become necessary to tazer him, but I do not see any evidence of this in the poor film provided.

I am still not willing to cnclude bad use of force because the video is not the best angle or quality, but when I saw the first video, I saw no signs of restraint or force.

At one point in the video, the suspect is kneeling, head down, and they are saying stand up. They DO attempt to use force to pick him up, but he resists. To safely carry a suspect, down stairs in that condition, they need four people. But, it seems they drag him anyways, even after using the tazer until he finally complies downstairs and stands up.

Was he resisting purposefully, yes. Did the cops have a volatile crowd on their hands, yes. Were they outnumbered, yes. But, their use of the tazer repeatedly seemed to be inspiring the crowd more. If I was a supervisor there, I would have told them to lift him by the arms and carry him down the stairs. If, as we lifted him up, he resisted (wiggling or squirming, not passive resistance) I would have used the tazer. You see, if you start down stairs, and he starts resisting, everyone could take a nasty fall if you only have two officers. The others appeared on crowd control. What the crowd does not realize is that, without their presence, this probably would have went differently.

Nonetheless, the tape does not show enough, but it does raise some questions. My assertions pertaining to ground fighting and the risks involved appear unimportant AFTER the first tazer application. Prior to the first tazer application, there is no evidence to indicate, on tape, whether or not that is justified. But, after we finally see him handcuffed, the repeated tasering for refusing to stand up is questionable and should be examined more closely.

156

Since research on spanking has showed a week POSITIVE correlation between spanking and delinquent behavior, it’s possible that he has been spanked, which action by his parents led to the consequence of a delinquent child.

157

This thread is TLDR, so as a student I’ll add a few things that may or may not have been said:

1.) To use the computers in the CLICC lab, you must have a valid UCLA ID# to log in. Which I realize isn’t on-site proof that the kid was a student, but it’s a point in his favor.

2.) While they may be “peace officers” those guys get paid about $8.50 an hour, and must maintain a minimum 2.0 GPA (that’s right, these guys were likely also students). These guys aren’t on a par with fucking LAPD. How much training in using force do you think they had to justify their awesome pay?

3.) RE: stairs. Yes there are stairs at the exit he is being dragged out of.

Yeah, the guy was being a whiny bitch. So what. Being a whiny bitch does not require using that kind of force. If it did, I’d leave a a pile of tased whiny bitches in my wake every day at Royce Hall. Considering we had a stabbing in front of the same building (in the middle of the day no less) a few weeks ago, I can’t say I blame the CSOs for being a little on edge, but this is just fucking nuts. Half nelson, chuck him out into the quad, case closed. Or should have been that way. The student body is also on edge in the wake of the stabbing and also upcoming finals. In any case, emotions are running high on both sides of the issue.

The only good news I can offer is that our interim Chancellor Norman Abrams is a faculty member at the law school whose study focuses on criminal procedure. I’ll let him investigate before I form a final opinion.

158

From the CSO FAQ site:

159

You would have been whining if they half-nelsoned him and dragged him out.

You’re just showing your knee-jerk reaction to any use of force by anyone in authority. Christ you people will be eaten alive in the real world. Grow up.

I hope the prick is booted off-campus or expelled.

160

Yes. Because you are me, and know totally my thoughts, feelings, and life experiences.

Hey Bobbo! I’m 25 and an ex-security guard. Hardly the “authority-hating” student you may have worked up in your mind. Honey child, I’m in the real fucking world right now and have been since my child-raping piece of shit father left me out in the cold when I was 18. Grow up yourself, and get a pair.