# Breaking the 4th wall by not breaking the 4th wall **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 29, 2019, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706 "2019-05-29T14:22:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/1 "2019-05-29T14:22:56Z")
Wonder if there’s a term for this: Suppose there is a defuse-the-bomb scene in a movie, but one of the character asks,\* “shouldn’t there be a blue or red wire to cut?”\* and then another character replies, \*“no it doesn’t work like that, this isn’t the movies” \*- that would be an attempt by the movie script to generate realism by claiming that a movie isn’t behaving like a movie, but it is in itself a case of breaking the 4th wall, right? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/2 "2019-05-29T14:25:45Z")
“lampshading” My favorite is in _Watchmen_ “Do you think I would be describing my Master Plan if there was the slightest chance you could affect it? I’m not a Republic serial villain- I did it fifteen minutes ago.” In the movie they changed it to “comic book villain” ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/3 "2019-05-29T14:35:37Z")
[This Is Reality](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThisIsReality) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/4 "2019-05-29T14:49:36Z")
Aha, thanks! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/5 "2019-05-29T15:15:10Z")
[Lampshade Hanging](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LampshadeHanging) Warning: TVTropes page. Do not click if you plan to get anything done during the next few hours! ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/6 "2019-05-29T17:00:54Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Wonder if there’s a term for this: Suppose there is a defuse-the-bomb scene in a movie, but one of the character asks,\* “shouldn’t there be a blue or red wire to cut?”\* and then another character replies, \*“no it doesn’t work like that, this isn’t the movies” \*- that would be an attempt by the movie script to generate realism by claiming that a movie isn’t behaving like a movie, but it is in itself a case of breaking the 4th wall, right? It’s not breaking the 4th wall, it’s rather that it interferes with immersion in the story and your suspension of disbelief. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/7 "2019-05-29T19:28:41Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > [Lampshade Hanging](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LampshadeHanging) > > Warning: TVTropes page. Do not click if you plan to get anything done during the next few hours! I like that they point out it goes back at least as far as Shakespeare. > [@](#): > > Sir Toby Belch: Is it possible? > Fabian: If this were played upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction. > — Shakespeare, Twelfth Night, Act 3, Scene IV In _Avengers: Endame_ when discussing time travel, they diss people who think that actual time travel would be like it’s shown in _Back to the Future_ ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/8 "2019-05-29T19:42:58Z")
Right. Time travel isn’t anything like Back to the Future, it’s more like a [big ball of wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey…stuff](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2nNzNo_Xps). The above clip is an example of lampshade hanging, because time travel in Doctor Who doesn’t obey consistent rules. It works one way in one episode, and then another writer writes another episode and time travel works differently. Time travel is consistently inconsistent. Also, if you’re wondering how he eats and breathes and other science facts, then repeat to yourself ‘It’s just a show, I should really just relax.’ ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/9 "2019-05-29T20:44:16Z")
We recently watched the whole run of _Mork and Mindy_. In one episode Robin Williams was a guest star so there was a _lot_ of lampshading in that episode. E.g., Mork holding up a Williams album cover and claiming that they don’t look alike, how funny Williams’ hair was, etc. ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/10 "2019-05-29T21:34:06Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > We recently watched the whole run of _Mork and Mindy_. > > In one episode Robin Williams was a guest star so there was a _lot_ of lampshading in that episode. E.g., Mork holding up a Williams album cover and claiming that they don’t look alike, how funny Williams’ hair was, etc. They did something similar in Ocean’s 12. Tess (played by Julia Roberts) was used to get access to priceless jewels in a museum by pretending she was film actress Julia Roberts (because in-movie she looked just like Julia Roberts) ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/11 "2019-05-29T22:43:38Z")
I always hate when people say “This isn’t like a movie, this is real life!” in movies and then what happens is straight out of some hack screenwriters script and nowhere else. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/12 "2019-05-29T22:51:58Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Right. Time travel isn’t anything like Back to the Future, it’s more like a [big ball of wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey…stuff](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2nNzNo_Xps). It’s actually more like [Jeremy Bearimy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFm9ClqlGuo). The timeline just happens to look like “Jeremy Bearimy” in English cursive, so we call it “Jeremy Bearimy.” ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/13 "2019-05-29T23:50:42Z")
From “Boston Legal” ``` Carl Sack : [Arguing, in court, about television age-ism] You know, the only show unafraid to have its stars over 50 is "Bo..."... Carl Sack : Gee, I can't say it. [- gesturing toward the cameras and the audience -] Carl Sack : It would, um, break the wall. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Made\_in\_Macau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@Made\_in\_Macau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Made_in_Macau)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/14 "2019-05-30T00:01:27Z")
Not sure this counts, but Tyrion starting to tell a variation on a dwarf joke in the finale of GOT broke the 4th wall for me, but didn’t actually do so in the true sense. I understood him to be talking to the audience. On my own? MiM ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/15 "2019-05-30T00:22:26Z")
There’s a cute bit in THE GREAT GATSBY where, between hurrying through the phrase “educated at Oxford” and his _then-came-the-war-old-sport_ talk of being decorated as a major, Jay’s clichés about having lived like a rajah playing big-game hunter really can’t be taken all that seriously. > [@](#): > > With an effort I managed to restrain my incredulous laughter. The very phrases were worn so threadbare that they evoked no image except that of a turbaned “character” leaking sawdust at every pore … My incredulity was submerged in fascination now; it was like skimming hastily through a dozen magazines. Of course, that’s when Jay keeps the chat going by producing a medal, engraved to Major Jay Gatsby for extraordinary valor, and a photo of various blazer-clad youths right where you’d think — including him, cricket bat in hand. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/16 "2019-05-30T07:51:52Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I like that they point out it goes back at least as far as Shakespeare. My favorite example is in Shakespeare’s _Julius Caesar_—after they’ve killed Caesar, Brutus and Cassius talk about how people in the future will act out the assassination they’ve just committed. TV Tropes calls this sort of thing “[leaning on the fourth wall](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LeaningOnTheFourthWall),” i.e., subtly reminding the audience that they’re watching a performance, but without breaking the wall and addressing the audience directly. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/17 "2019-05-30T10:51:09Z")
I’m not sure where this falls into the continuum of breaking the 4th wall, but I saw a fun one last night. In the show Gentleman Jack, the lead character occasionally breaks the 4th wall, pretty traditional stuff. In one scene, she gives a wry look directly into the camera and the other person in the scene says “what are you looking at?” ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/18 "2019-05-30T11:59:26Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > My favorite example is in Shakespeare’s _Julius Caesar_—after they’ve killed Caesar, Brutus and Cassius talk about how people in the future will act out the assassination they’ve just committed. > > TV Tropes calls this sort of thing “[leaning on the fourth wall](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LeaningOnTheFourthWall),” i.e., subtly reminding the audience that they’re watching a performance, but without breaking the wall and addressing the audience directly. Blackadder was likely parodying that passage during this exchange Blackadder: I want to be remembered when I’m dead. I want books written about me. I want songs sung about me. And then hundreds of years from now I want episodes of my life to be played out weekly at half past nine by some great heroic actor of the age. Baldrick: Yeah, and I could be played by some tiny tit in a beard. Blackadder: Quite. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/19 "2019-06-04T08:24:59Z")
This seems similar to the movie where Gene Hackman walks up to a bar and orders a “beer” like many people do in the movies and are given a beer. In this case, the bartender looks at him like an idiot and says “Sir, this is a bar. We have several types of beers. You’ll have to be more specific.” At which point Gene Hackman smiles and says, “You pick one for me.” ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/20 "2023-12-05T05:42:19Z")
I’ve started watching a body-swap movie called _Family Swap_. It isn’t _great_ so far, but you really gotta respect this bit of lampshade hanging. One character is googling for body swapping on her cell phone. This conversation takes place among the four family members: - CC, any luck? - No. This is a completely unique and original situation that has literally never happened before. - Right? I mean, no kid has ever just woken up big. - Yeah, it’s so freaky. - You’re telling me. I’m 17 again. - I’m 13 going on 30. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706.md?page=2)