# Breaking the 4th wall by not breaking the 4th wall **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 29, 2019, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706 "2019-05-29T14:22:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/21 "2023-12-05T09:40:00Z")
I was just watching Episode 2 of the second series of [The Lazarus Project](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14190592/reference/) and this excellent exchange took place: Samson - It’s an old military compound. Miles of tunnels underground they retrofitted into a velocity chamber. Shiv - Like the Hadron Collider? Samson - Exactly. Tunnels form a high-velocity track so the subject can reach the right speed for time travel. Greta - Like 88 miles an hour in a DeLorean? [chuckles] Samson - Sorry? Greta - 88 miles an hour in a DeLorean. It’s, uh, like _Back to the Future._ Samson - Ah. Uh, I haven’t seen it. The Dane- Really? Never? Samson - I’m not really a movie guy. Sarah - Right, but, like, I mean, it’s fucking _Back to the Future._ Samson = Okay. Sarah - [Sarah] Everyone’s seen it. My _mum_ ’s seen it, and she hasn’t seen anything. Samson - I’ve just been really busy with science and stuff. George - But to be fair, you literally made a time machine. That’s like an archeologist not watching _Jurassic Park._ Sarah - Palaeontologist. George - What? Sarah - It’s like a palaeontologist not watching _Jurassic Park._ An archeologist would watch _Indiana Jones._ They’re different jobs. Wes - Shall we get back to it? Samson - Yes, well… ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/22 "2023-12-05T10:43:23Z")
There’s a series called “The Serpent Queen”. Basically the whole series is about a Queen telling one of her servant girls her life story. As the scenes of her story are being played out, the protagonist (the queen), will stop what she’s doing and talk directly to the camera. Only except she’s not really talking to the audience. She’s taking a parenthetical pause to provide the servant girl with more context of the story she’s telling. I actually enjoyed this series. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/23 "2023-12-05T12:55:38Z")
From _Babylon 5_: “This is not some deep space franchise. This place is about something.” In _Chicago Hope_, a PR firm did a TV ad for the hospital that was much like the opening credits for _E.R._ Both shows ran opposite to each other. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/24 "2023-12-05T13:11:59Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > From _Babylon 5_: “This is not some deep space franchise. This place is about something.” From _Zootopia_: “Life isn’t some cartoon musical where you sing a little song and your insipid dreams magically come true. So let. It. Go.” ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/25 "2023-12-05T13:19:36Z")
I had to look up, “Breaking the 4th wall”. " When plays, television shows, and movies break the fourth wall, they **acknowledge the existence of the audience and speak to them directly**." This doesn’t seem to be the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/26 "2023-12-05T13:23:50Z")
One of my favorite examples of this is in _Archer_ where Cheryl keeps hearing the background music and finally puts her hands over her ears and shouts “It’s not diegetic!”. Also, from _Kingsman: The Secret Service:_ “This ain’t that kind of movie, bruv.” ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/27 "2023-12-05T13:25:54Z")
In an episode of _Green Acres_, Oliver and Lisa travel to Washington DC (to see the Eiffel Tower) and meet with their senator. Lisa asks, “What actor are you?” Senator: “Actor?” Lisa: “All senators are former actors these days.” Senator (after a pause): “Lyle Talbot.” And, yes, he was played by Lyle Talbot, a busy character actor who appeared in _Plan 9 from Outer Space._ ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/28 "2023-12-05T14:23:37Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > " When plays, television shows, and movies break the fourth wall, they **acknowledge the existence of the audience and speak to them directly**." > > This doesn’t seem to be the same thing. That is an extremely limited definition of the term. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/29 "2023-12-05T16:31:24Z")
In an end-of-season episode of the Viking comedy Norsemen, a plot development that may have been expected to happen did not, and one of the characters said “maybe it’ll happen next season”, seemingly breaking the 4th wall. Another character says “next season? What do you mean?” “Well, it’s Summer now, maybe it’ll happen in the Fall”. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/30 "2023-12-06T19:04:09Z")
In _Rick and Morty_ Rick casually mentions things happening in previous seasons several times and nobody even reacts. I like the episode where they encounter “Season Two Jerry” and everybody knows exactly who they’re talking about when they mention him. ---
**Author:** ![anny\_m](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@anny\_m](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anny_m)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/31 "2023-12-06T19:35:34Z")
Not sure if this qualifies: In the movie _Bohemian Rhapsody_ a record company exec doesn’t like the song “Bohemian Rhapsody” because it’s not the type of song that teenagers would bang their heads to in a car. The exec is played by Mike Myers, who of course is well known for banging his head to BR in a car with Dana Carvey in _Wayne’s World_. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/32 "2023-12-06T19:52:29Z")
In one of Tom Clancy’s novels, John Clark and Domingo Chavez are in an old car, surveilling some bad guys. One of them mentions how real espionage is not like the movies. The other one says “Yeah, if this were a movie, this car would be a sports car, and you would be a beautiful blonde.” ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/33 "2023-12-07T09:12:42Z")
I vaguely remember an 80s sitcom (I’m thinking it was Too Close For Comfort) where the family had a problem to solve and Ted Knight (or whoever it was) just sort of nonchalantly says something like, “Well, however we solve the problem, we only have 12 minutes to do it.” I don’t remember it being a time-based problem, it was just a joke that the show was going to be over in 12 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/34 "2023-12-07T09:25:52Z")
And once on _Growing Pains_, Dr. Seaver was angry with Mike for something, and he said, “We’re gonna talk about this later. During _Moonlighting_ [the program that followed _GP_ in the evening lineup].” But [Here’s](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s638IMetB9I)my favorite yes it does/no it doesn’t fourth wall breaking scene (from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend). ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/35 "2023-12-07T10:50:28Z")
> [@zbuzz](#): > > “Well, however we solve the problem, we only have 12 minutes to do it.” On _Futurama_, Leela has to improvise a plan and says “If only I had two or three minutes to think about it!” Fade to the first commercial break… ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/36 "2023-12-07T12:34:55Z")
In the forgettable sitcom _Yes, Dear_ at the end of one episode they discuss why the furniture in the room is the way it is. One character tries to move the couch to the 4th wall (back to the viewers) and they all discuss how it feels wrong and they can’t really put anything against that wall. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/37 "2023-12-07T15:17:26Z")
There’s this clip from “Top Secret!”, featuring a young Val Kilmer. Clip is a minute long, but it’s actually all over in about 25 seconds: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/KSZwlMDSOvY/maxresdefault.jpg "Top Secret! (3/9) Movie CLIP - Some Bad Movie (1984) HD") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSZwlMDSOvY) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/38 "2023-12-07T23:01:59Z")
What I’d like to see some time would be a character breaking the wrong fourth wall. Like, a character who knows that he’s in a comic book, and behaves accordingly, but it’s actually a movie. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2023, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/39 "2023-12-08T01:57:20Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > That is an extremely limited definition of the term. Has the definition of the term changed recently? Because that’s the dictionary definition of what the term used to be. And still is, if you believe [screencraft.org](http://screencraft.org): > A fourth wall break occurs when a performer acknowledges the presence of the audience, the camera, or any other observer. This is usually done by looking directly into the camera and/or addressing the audience directly. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2023, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/40 "2023-12-08T02:19:38Z")
In modern parlance, it’s anything that acknowledges the medium. This can be by speaking directly to the audience, but there’s lots of other ways it can happen. For instance, a comic character referencing the panel boundaries, or a movie character referring to the camera man, or anyone commenting on non-digetic music. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706.md?page=3)