# Breaking the 4th wall by not breaking the 4th wall **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 29, 2019, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706 "2019-05-29T14:22:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Lare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lare)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2023, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/61 "2023-12-10T22:54:02Z")
I’m not sure if this fits either of the definitions we’re bandying about, but on an episode of “Mork and Mindy,” Mindy is jailed and her cellmate is Barbara Billingsley who played The Beaver’s mom, June Cleaver, on “Leave It To Beaver.” Mork comes in and Mindy makes a comment about being afraid of her cellmate. Mork’s response is something along the lines of “Aww, c’mon Mindy! She looks like Mrs. Cleaver!” ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2023, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/62 "2023-12-10T23:23:04Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > In _Psych_ Shawn mentions that they average solving one crime a week, two around the holidays. In _Monk_ they make a lot of jokes like that, framing it as the number of cases they have the budget for and about if he’ll get approved for more, where what they are talking about is the number of episodes contracted for a season and if it was going to be renewed. (Edit) Here is one I was thinking of. I’m thinking it is done more than in just one episode, though. > In the beginning of “Mr. Monk and the Big Reward,” Monk and Natalie ask to be put on a retainer for the SFPD - at the end of the episode, Stottlemeyer tells them that the Commissioner has decided to guarantee them sixteen homicides a year for the next two years. After that, they’ll just have to see what happens. To better explain the joke: each season of _Monk_ has sixteen episodes (save for season 1, which has just twelve episodes), and that episode was near the end of that current season with the show up for being renewed. ([From TV Tropes](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Monk/TropesKToR)) ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2023, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/63 "2023-12-11T12:55:35Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > > [@Wolf333](#): > > > > In _Psych_ Shawn mentions that they average solving one crime a week, two around the holidays. > > In _Monk_ they make a lot of jokes like that, framing it as the number of cases they have the budget for and about if he’ll get approved for more, where what they are talking about is the number of episodes contracted for a season and if it was going to be renewed. And in the new movie ‘Mr. Monk’s Last Case’ when Monk and co. meets with the billionaire who he suspects of killing his stepdaughter’s fiancée, he says “ah, the great detective Monk. Why, it seemed like back in the day you were solving a murder every week”. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2023, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/64 "2023-12-11T13:05:04Z")
Spoilers! ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2023, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/65 "2023-12-11T13:09:09Z")
I don’t think it’s s spoiler since, like Columbo, the Monk movie is more of a ‘howdunit’ than a ‘whodunit’; it was obvious who the killer was. But just in case I went back in and spoiler-blurred the key part. ---
**Author:** ![Author\_Balk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Author\_Balk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Author_Balk)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2023, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/66 "2023-12-11T13:40:29Z")
Psych does some similar things. For example, Ralph Macchio from The Karate Kid was one of the characters in one episode. Shawn Spenser said, "“Well, don’t just stand there and wax on about it”. Wax on was a reference to The Karate Kid. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2023, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/67 "2023-12-11T13:46:12Z")
There was also a walk-and-talk scene between Shaun and Gus in which Gus talked about the idea of working at the White House but only in a minor role like an assistant. Dule Hill previously played a WH assistant in _The West Wing_, famous for its Sorkin walk-and-talk scenes. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2023, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/68 "2023-12-11T13:53:15Z")
> [@Author\_Balk](#): > > Wax on was a reference to The Karate Kid. There was a long thread about references to actors previous roles. In most cases, I don’t really consider that breaking the 4th wall. > [@Humorous Allusions to Actors' Previous Roles](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humorous-allusions-to-actors-previous-roles/928191): > > On Frasier, Laurie Metcalf as a frustrated “Nanny G” asks the titular character if he has “any idea what it’s like to play the same character for 20 years,” an allusion to Kelsey Grammar’s role on Cheers! On The Beverly Hillbillies, Bank President Milburn Drysdale mistakenly addresses actor “Dash Riprock,” played by Larry Pennel, as “Ripcord.” Ripcord was a syndicated TV series of the early '60s, in which Pennel played skydiver “Ted McKeever.” Can you think of any others? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2023, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/69 "2023-12-11T14:00:52Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > There was a long thread about references to actors previous roles. In most cases, I don’t really consider that breaking the 4th wall. Dang, I recently saw new instances of those but didn’t know where to find the thread. Now that I have a link to the thread I of course don’t remember the new examples. ([The post I made bumping this thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/20) would fit there–the movie costars Jennifer Garner, who was in _13 Going on 30_.) ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2023, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/70 "2023-12-11T15:33:08Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > > [@Author\_Balk](#): > > > > Wax on was a reference to The Karate Kid. > > There was a long thread about references to actors previous roles. In most cases, I don’t really consider that breaking the 4th wall. Well, it’s certainly “Leaning On The 4th Wall…” (the TV Tropes entries are certainly addictive, I love “clever” writing, and little blurbs tossed in just to amuse the viewers). eta: Ah, here’s the link from this thread: > [@erysichthon](#): > > TV Tropes calls this sort of thing “[leaning on the fourth wall](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LeaningOnTheFourthWall),” i.e., subtly reminding the audience that they’re watching a performance, but without breaking the wall and addressing the audience directly. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/71 "2023-12-12T01:14:53Z")
The sitcom _Action_ was shown Thursday nights at 9:00-9:30. It did not get great ratings. In the final show aired, the lead character dies in an ambulance on the way to the hospital with a heart attack. The EMTs say he died at 9:30 on Thursday – just like the show. On one episode of _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_, Dawn got in trouble and Buffy said, “It must be Tuesday.” The show aired on Tuesdays. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/72 "2023-12-13T14:13:33Z")
The TV show “Elementary” (present-day Sherlock Holmes show with Jonny Lee Miller and Lucy Liu) used to air on Thursdays from 2012 to 2019. In 2014, CBS got the rights to Thursday night football, routinely pre-empting the show, so they started making in episode jokes about the NFL and football interfering with their cases, had Phil Simms (the color commentator for Thursday night games) on as a guest star playing himself, etc. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2023, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/73 "2023-12-16T07:10:32Z")
I wonder if this counts. In the series _Burn Notice_, the protagonist **Michael Westen** would narrate to the audience, which is a literal fourth wall breaking trope that we are now so used to we barely question it. But one episode they had a character played by guest star actor [Michael Weston](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Weston). That was clearly a deliberate wink wink. ---
**Author:** ![Galactus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galactus/32/3581_2.png) [@Galactus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galactus)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2023, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/74 "2023-12-16T18:49:54Z")
How about the Halloween episode of CASTLE where Nathan Fillion’s character dresses up as his character from FIREFLY? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2023, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/75 "2023-12-16T19:42:58Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/0g42UxfB6MI/hqdefault.jpg "Castle: The Firefly Scene") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g42UxfB6MI) ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2023, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/76 "2023-12-17T05:43:01Z")
Thank you! As a Firefly/Castle/Nathan fan, it was incredible to just turn on the TV one night, and chance upon that scene. “Didn’t you wear that, like, five years ago?” Oh, and I loved that the “Nikki Heat” books that Castle “wrote” on the show were actually written IRL. AND Nathan Fillon went on book tours to Barnes and Nobles promoting them, _as Richard Castle._ ---
**Author:** ![ZamboniAce1000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/f19dbf/32.png) [@ZamboniAce1000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZamboniAce1000)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706/77 "2023-12-21T20:14:53Z")
On “Buffy the Vampire Slayer”, which originally was on Tuesdays at 8:pm Eastern (7 Central, etc) once when Buffy’s sister Dawn got in trouble and needed rescuing Buffy said, “It must be Tuesday.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-the-4th-wall-by-not-breaking-the-4th-wall/834706.md?page=3)