# Breaking: Ukrainian 737 Crashes in Iran. Possibly Shot Down. 160-180 Dead. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 8, 2020, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-ukrainian-737-crashes-in-iran-possibly-shot-down-160-180-dead/846111 "2020-01-08T06:33:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-ukrainian-737-crashes-in-iran-possibly-shot-down-160-180-dead/846111/41 "2020-01-09T21:40:02Z")
[Components from Iranian SA-15 missiles found near crash site.](https://www.funker530.com/iranian-air-defense-ukrainian-passenger/?fbclid=IwAR0Bqvj19zT4FoLZKWpv7MoFFHKNbuBQffRW5blpGoduEtLDkW_nhJo7rtY) ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-ukrainian-737-crashes-in-iran-possibly-shot-down-160-180-dead/846111/42 "2020-01-09T21:41:11Z")
> [@bibliophage](#): > > CBS News is [reporting](https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/plane-crash-us-officials-confident-iran-shot-down-passenger-jet-bound-for-ukraine-today-2020-01-09-live-stream-updates/) that unnamed US officials are “confident” that Iran shot down the jet, obviously without intending to down a civilian airliner. Of course, the Iranians could just be _saying_ that, and that the airliner was the intended target/response all along. I read earlier that PM Trudeau says that the Canadians have evidence it was shot down as well. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-ukrainian-737-crashes-in-iran-possibly-shot-down-160-180-dead/846111/43 "2020-01-09T21:45:48Z")
[Link to video appearing to show missile strike.](https://www.nytimes.com/video/world/middleeast/100000006911815/iran-plane-missile.html?playlistId=video/middle-east) Unverified reports on twitter that the crash site has been bulldozed into a pile. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-ukrainian-737-crashes-in-iran-possibly-shot-down-160-180-dead/846111/44 "2020-01-09T22:01:42Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Of course, the Iranians could just be _saying_ that, and that the airliner was the intended target/response all along. Why would the Iranians do that? They gain virtually nothing and lose a whole lot by intentionally going after an airliner. Bear in mind that 82 Iranians were killed in that airplane too. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-ukrainian-737-crashes-in-iran-possibly-shot-down-160-180-dead/846111/45 "2020-01-09T22:07:09Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I read earlier that PM Trudeau says that the Canadians have evidence it was shot down as well. That’s what he said at a press conference earlier today. But nobody is yet sure whether it is intentional or accidental. Mr. Trudeau allowed that it may have been unintentional. CTV News on Mr. Trudeau’s remarks: > **[Intelligence indicates Flight PS752 was shot down by Iran: Trudeau](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/intelligence-indicates-flight-ps752-was-shot-down-by-iran-trudeau-1.4759850)** > > Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says Canada has intelligence that indicates the plane that crashed in Iran Wednesday morning, killing all 176 people aboard, was shot down by an Iranian missile, possibly by accident. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-ukrainian-737-crashes-in-iran-possibly-shot-down-160-180-dead/846111/46 "2020-01-09T22:46:24Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Why would the Iranians do that? They gain virtually nothing and lose a whole lot by intentionally going after an airliner. Bear in mind that 82 Iranians were killed in that airplane too. Yes, given that their beef here is with the US, and possibly US-leaning elements in Iraq and other middle eastern nations, it seems highly suspect that they would _choose_ to unleash their furry on an aircraft with so many Iranians on board, and absolutely zero Americans or citizens of other target groups. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-ukrainian-737-crashes-in-iran-possibly-shot-down-160-180-dead/846111/47 "2020-01-09T22:52:59Z")
I forgot about the Iranians on board. I was thinking perhaps it would’ve been a more subtle attack given the Ukraine situation vis a vis Trump. Nevermind I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-ukrainian-737-crashes-in-iran-possibly-shot-down-160-180-dead/846111/48 "2020-01-09T23:16:25Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Yes, given that their beef here is with the US, and possibly US-leaning elements in Iraq and other middle eastern nations, it seems highly suspect that they would _choose_ to unleash their furry on an aircraft with so many Iranians on board, and absolutely zero Americans or citizens of other target groups. 63 of those on board who were killed were Canadian citizens. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-ukrainian-737-crashes-in-iran-possibly-shot-down-160-180-dead/846111/49 "2020-01-09T23:26:53Z")
Which changes nothing in my mind: it’d be one hell of a roundabout way to get back at the US. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-ukrainian-737-crashes-in-iran-possibly-shot-down-160-180-dead/846111/50 "2020-01-09T23:28:14Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Bear in mind that 82 Iranians were killed in that airplane too. I’ve read that many of the Canadians (or their parents) were also originally from Iran. > [@](#): > > More than a third of the 176 people killed in the Boeing 737 crash in Iran were Canadians, who make up one of the largest Iranian diasporas in the world. > > Sixty-three Canadians died on the Ukraine International Airlines jet that crashed early Wednesday near Tehran, one of the worst aviation disasters ever to affect Canada. Some may have had dual nationality, given the large Iranian population in north Toronto and other parts of the country. [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-08/canadians-killed-in-iran-plane-crash-were-part-of-large-diaspora](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-08/canadians-killed-in-iran-plane-crash-were-part-of-large-diaspora) > [@](#): > > British Columbia’s Iranian community was plunged into grief Wednesday after at least 13 people from this province with ties to Iran were among the 176 people killed when an airliner crashed into a field in Iran. > **[Tehran tragedy shakes close-knit Iranian Canadian community in Metro Vancouver](https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/tehran-tragedy-shakes-close-knit-iranian-canadian-community-in-metro-vancouver)** > > B.C.'s Iranian community was plunged into grief Wednesday after at least a dozen Iranian Canadians from this province were among the 176 people killed when an airliner crashed into a field in Iran. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-ukrainian-737-crashes-in-iran-possibly-shot-down-160-180-dead/846111/51 "2020-01-09T23:39:07Z")
The thinking is that Canada/US/UK are saying it was probably accidental because they have ears on the Iranian military chatter. I’m wondering what the American response would have been had the 63 Canadians been 63 Americans. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-ukrainian-737-crashes-in-iran-possibly-shot-down-160-180-dead/846111/52 "2020-01-09T23:46:34Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > The thinking is that Canada/US/UK are saying it was probably accidental because they have ears on the Iranian military chatter. That or, as I keep saying, there’s really no motive to begin with. > [@](#): > > I’m wondering what the American response would have been had the 63 Canadians been 63 Americans. If travel between the US and Iran were that common, I doubt the geopolitical situation would bear any resemblance to what it is today, and so this wouldn’t have happened. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-ukrainian-737-crashes-in-iran-possibly-shot-down-160-180-dead/846111/53 "2020-01-10T03:19:45Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > The thinking is that Canada/US/UK are saying it was probably accidental because they have ears on the Iranian military chatter. between satellite, drone, radar, and communication monitoring they could make a movie of the evidence. Since none of them are massive technical secrets they should play the pilot’s transmissions after being hit. Assuming the crew could transmit. Maybe they thought they were shooting at an ELINT plane. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-ukrainian-737-crashes-in-iran-possibly-shot-down-160-180-dead/846111/54 "2020-01-10T03:39:32Z")
I’m angry. I’m angry with the US right now. Not necessarily all individual citizens, just ohhh something like 63 million of you. 63 innocent Canadians killed due to apparent dick wagging. Not to mention the other 70 something passengers who had been traveling back to Canada and undoubtedly also seeking Canadian citizenship. So, 160 peaceful Canadians, or wanna-be Canadians, are dead because of your asshole, narcissistic, dim-witted fuck-head president. I’m angry. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-ukrainian-737-crashes-in-iran-possibly-shot-down-160-180-dead/846111/55 "2020-01-10T04:18:16Z")
Assuming this pans out as now being described it seems perhaps the most negligent accidental shoot down of an airliner ever. In all past cases I can think of offhand, air defense forces failed to identify, mistook the identity, or perhaps didn’t care the identity (depending one’s interpretation of various past incidents) of an airliner which either strayed (or otherwise entered, again interpretation) into forbidden airspace on a flight from another country, or was where it was because another country authorized it to be. In this case Iran apparently authorized a commercial flight from their own airport, on a night when they were launching a ballistic missile attack on opposing force and were on alert for possible immediate retaliatory air or cruise missile strikes. All they had to do was delay commercial flights until daylight to vastly reduce the chance of such an incident even in a near-war situation. Initial US air/cruise missile attacks in recent times are virtually always at night, and anyway air defense crews would be more likely to avoid such an accident by visually identifying a potential target in daylight (the Russian ‘Tor’ system implicated has a backup TV tracker, part for IFF reasons, in part as an ECCM feature, as many SAM systems do) . ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-ukrainian-737-crashes-in-iran-possibly-shot-down-160-180-dead/846111/56 "2020-01-10T05:14:16Z")
I think the USA has been even more negligent. > [@](#): > > Iran Air Flight 655 was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai via Bandar Abbas that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from USS Vincennes, a guided-missile cruiser of the United States Navy. The aircraft, an Airbus A300, was destroyed and all 290 people on board, including 66 children, were killed.[1] The jet was hit while flying over Iran’s territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, along the flight’s usual route, shortly after departing Bandar Abbas International Airport, the flight’s stopover location. Vincennes had entered Iranian territory after one of its helicopters drew warning fire from Iranian speedboats operating within Iranian territorial limits.[2][3] ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-ukrainian-737-crashes-in-iran-possibly-shot-down-160-180-dead/846111/57 "2020-01-10T05:40:50Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I’m angry. > > I’m angry with the US right now. Not necessarily all individual citizens, just ohhh something like 63 million of you. > > 63 innocent Canadians killed due to apparent dick wagging. Not to mention the other 70 something passengers who had been traveling back to Canada and undoubtedly also seeking Canadian citizenship. > > So, 160 peaceful Canadians, or wanna-be Canadians, are dead because of your asshole, narcissistic, dim-witted fuck-head president. > > I’m angry. I think a great many of us are angry. Something I wrote on Facebook this morning following a Republican complaining that we didn’t respect her president when I blamed both Trump and Iran: > [@](#): > > Dear Republicans: yes, Trump is your president, so you’ll probably close either your ears to this or take offence. It’s your choice to wallow in ignorance and avoidance. > > Trump has had Canadian deaths on his hands since his first week in office when he incited such hatred against Muslims that a nutter shot up a mosque in Montréal. Now he and Iran have caused the deaths of 176 innocents, of which 138 were travelling to Canada, including 63 Canadians. > > You go right on being offended by criticism of your president – but despite your admiration and support for him, don’t be surprised that he is reviled for what he has repeatedly proven himself to be: an ignorant, immoral, monster. > > You complain that we “have no respect” for your president, but the simple fact of the matter is that your beloved Trump has no respect for either the living or the dead. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-ukrainian-737-crashes-in-iran-possibly-shot-down-160-180-dead/846111/58 "2020-01-10T06:03:17Z")
IDK, I mean, Iran uses Iraqi Shia militias as a proxy to attack the US Embassy in Iraq, the US responds with a precision strike on a guy who’s been, in an open secret, orchestrating or aiding attacks against US military personnel for over a decade, and the Iran responds by lobbing a bunch of cruise missiles that could as just as easily killed a bunch of Iraqis as no one, and then shoots down an airliner leaving its own damn airport with a bunch of its own citizens. Frankly, I’m saddened by all of this, but I just can’t find it in me to be mad at Trump over this specific series of events. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-ukrainian-737-crashes-in-iran-possibly-shot-down-160-180-dead/846111/59 "2020-01-10T07:01:17Z")
Fuck Trump. Fuck your war-mongering bullshit. I’ve been silent till now over all this horseshit. I can’t be silent anymore. You fuckers are a war-loving Christian theocracy bunch of assholes who continue to fuck the entire planet. Fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-ukrainian-737-crashes-in-iran-possibly-shot-down-160-180-dead/846111/60 "2020-01-10T09:26:00Z")
**Moderator Warning** > [@Leaffan](#): > > Fuck Trump. Fuck your war-mongering bullshit. I’ve been silent till now over all this horseshit. I can’t be silent anymore. > You fuckers are a war-loving Christian theocracy bunch of assholes who continue to fuck the entire planet. Fuck you. This is an official warning for Pit-style behavior outside of the Pit. You don’t need to be silent, but you do need to keep posts like this out of breaking news threads. Post in the Pit instead. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-ukrainian-737-crashes-in-iran-possibly-shot-down-160-180-dead/846111.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-ukrainian-737-crashes-in-iran-possibly-shot-down-160-180-dead/846111.md?page=4)