# Breast-feeding and Homesexuality. Grow Up! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 22, 2003, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breast-feeding-and-homesexuality-grow-up/214648 "2003-11-22T08:00:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breast-feeding-and-homesexuality-grow-up/214648/101 "2003-11-25T13:17:09Z")
ARgh. Link burfed on me. Search Google for “gwen breast trailer trash page” and it’s the “hipMama” link…4th one down, for me. And choose to view the cached page. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breast-feeding-and-homesexuality-grow-up/214648/102 "2003-11-26T01:20:23Z")
I see no problem with breast feeding per-se in any place where other forms of eating are allowed. That said, don’t BK have a rule against bringing your own food into their restaurant? The real problem, I see, is babies. Horrible little things, with small hands, that smell like cabbage. Can’t we just ban anyone under the age of 18 from any place they might be seen by the general public and possibly cause distress. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breast-feeding-and-homesexuality-grow-up/214648/103 "2003-11-26T01:40:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by calm kiwi \* > **Breast feeding boobs are not topless! They generaly have a nipple flashed for a minute till baby attaches.** In that case, either _flashing a nipple for a minute_ is OK in public, or it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breast-feeding-and-homesexuality-grow-up/214648/104 "2003-11-26T02:34:15Z")
Right, because nothing is ever polite or impolite in context. It’s always either polite or impolite in every circumstance. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breast-feeding-and-homesexuality-grow-up/214648/105 "2003-11-26T05:20:16Z")
Chewing with your mouth open is “impolite”. Exposing yourself is _illegal_. (Except, apparently, when a baby is sucking on you.) ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breast-feeding-and-homesexuality-grow-up/214648/106 "2003-11-26T06:11:48Z")
**fush** , the Government Accounting Office identified 1,049 separate Federal rights and responsibilities that were directly related to marital status ([here](http://www.gao.gov/archive/1997/og97016.pdf)). Since same-sex couples cannot, currently, get married, we are, in essence, denied those rights and responsibilities. Perhaps not the Rights[sup]TM[/sup] you so cleverly enumerated, but a gross inequity nonetheless. Oh, and [you’re still an asshole](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=219153). Have a crappy day. :rolleyes: Esprix ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breast-feeding-and-homesexuality-grow-up/214648/107 "2003-11-26T06:21:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > \*\*Chewing with your mouth open is “impolite”. Exposing yourself is _illegal_. (Except, apparently, when a baby is sucking on you.) \*\* Making a child touch your genitals is also illegal, but they make an exception for a mother giving birth. Let’s go zero tolerance and outlaw that as well! There are all sorts of behaviors that are illegal in some circumstances but not others. Making an exception to indecent exposure for the worthy purpose of allowing a mother to feed her infant is no different that making an exception in sexual abuse laws to allow breastfeeding or other necessary infant care. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breast-feeding-and-homesexuality-grow-up/214648/108 "2003-11-26T06:23:27Z")
Exposing one’s breast for the purpose of feeding an infant is simply not indecent, which is why it’s not illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breast-feeding-and-homesexuality-grow-up/214648/109 "2003-11-26T07:25:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* > \*\*While I’m a strong opponent of the “right not to be offended” I also don’t think that mothers breastfeeding should get special treatment, in some way deciding that one boob display is for a “better” or more virtuous purpose than another. Either topless boobs are okay in public all the time, or not. \*\* I have no problem with making it ok all the time. In fact I would suggest that the laws which forbid women from exposing their breasts but not men actually violate equal protection and are unconstitutional. I could also argue that baring a breast for the purpose of feeding an infant is a physical necessity which should not be hindered by nudity laws. It’s not about “virtue” it’s about the needs of the infant. If other women want to bare their breasts that’s fine with me too. ::leer smiley:: ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breast-feeding-and-homesexuality-grow-up/214648/110 "2003-11-26T09:06:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lee \* > **Making a child touch your genitals is also illegal, but they make an exception for a mother giving birth.** Fascinating. Where can I find that law and read about the exception? Keep in mind that I’m not suggesting any kind of zero tolerance policy. Quite the opposite! We all agree that no one will die from seeing a quick flash of nipple, and no one has suggested that babies have some sort of magical power to make nipples inoffensive. I’m suggesting that if a quick flash of nipple is legal when a baby’s involved, it should also be legal when there’s no baby. > [@](#): > > **Making an exception to indecent exposure for the worthy purpose of allowing a mother to feed her infant is no different that making an exception in sexual abuse laws to allow breastfeeding or other necessary infant care.** Breastfeeding has its merits, but I wouldn’t call it “necessary” infant care. There are other ways to feed a child. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by KellyM_ > **Exposing one’s breast for the purpose of feeding an infant is simply not indecent, which is why it’s not illegal.** Exposing one’s breast isn’t indecent for any reason, in my opinion. In the opinion of the person who complained to Burger King’s management, exposing one’s breast to feed an infant apparently _is_ indecent. In your opinion, I presume, exposing one’s breast is indecent in some circumstances but not in others. What makes your opinion as to the indecency of breast exposure any more valid than the BK manager’s, or mine, or Larry Flynt’s? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breast-feeding-and-homesexuality-grow-up/214648/111 "2003-11-26T09:26:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > \*\*What makes your opinion as to the indecency of breast exposure any more valid than the BK manager’s, or mine, or Larry Flynt’s? \*\* Context is everything. I presume flashing is illegal because we don’t want people exposing themselves publicly in an erotic manner. But since infant breastfeeding is not erotic, outlawing it in public would not serve the purpose that indecent exposure bans do. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breast-feeding-and-homesexuality-grow-up/214648/112 "2003-11-26T13:17:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > Breastfeeding has its merits, but I wouldn’t call it “necessary” infant care. There are other ways to feed a child. If you’re a breastfeeding mother, it’s necessary infant care. Most mothers who breastfeed their children do not carry around bottles and formula supplies just in case they run into an easily-offended member of the public. What’s this woman supposed to do, give her 6-month-old a cheeseburger and a Coke? I suppose one could make the argument that she should pump breastmilk and carry it around with her in bottles, but you run into the same problem: are breastfeeding women supposed to go to the expense, time, and trouble of buying and using a breastpump, carrying around breastmilk (which must be kept refrigerated), and keeping bottles around, just in case somebody might be offended by the sight of a woman breastfeeding? Anyway, my point is, in the grand scheme of things, I suppose it’s not necessary, because as you say, there are other infant feeding options. But in a specific case, when you’re looking at one breastfeeding mother sitting in a restaurant with a hungry baby, yes, it’s necessary. ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breast-feeding-and-homesexuality-grow-up/214648/113 "2003-11-26T14:21:58Z")
[http://www.legis.state.il.us/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=072000050HArt.+12&ActID=1876&ChapAct=720�ILCS�5%2F&ChapterID=53&ChapterName=CRIMINAL+OFFENSES&SectionID=60636&SeqStart=24100&SeqEnd=29400&ActName=Criminal+Code+of+1961.](http://www.legis.state.il.us/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=072000050HArt%2E+12&ActID=1876&ChapAct=720%A0ILCS%A05%2F&ChapterID=53&ChapterName=CRIMINAL+OFFENSES&SectionID=60636&SeqStart=24100&SeqEnd=29400&ActName=Criminal+Code+of+1961%2E) That statute is the one I referred to. Read it. It defines the conduct that would include birth as illegal and then makes an exception in certain conditions. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breast-feeding-and-homesexuality-grow-up/214648/114 "2003-11-27T06:28:36Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Blalron_ > **Context is everything. I presume flashing is illegal because we don’t want people exposing themselves publicly in an erotic manner. But since infant breastfeeding is not erotic, outlawing it in public would not serve the purpose that indecent exposure bans do.** A dirty old man wearing a trenchcoat, exposing his penis, is not erotic either. I have no doubt that most people who don’t consider a breastfeeding mother erotic would consider a nasty hobo’s wang even _less_ erotic. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by MsWhatsit_ > **Anyway, my point is, in the grand scheme of things, I suppose it’s not necessary, because as you say, there are other infant feeding options. But in a specific case, when you’re looking at one breastfeeding mother sitting in a restaurant with a hungry baby, yes, it’s necessary.** I suppose if you look at it that way, sure. Just like it might be necessary for a person with a suspended license to drive a car to get to a court date, or for a starving man to steal food if he left his wallet at home. But note that even in the specific case of a breastfeeding mother with a starving baby sitting in the dining area of Burger King, it isn’t necessary for her to feed the baby _right there_. It may be inconvenient or unpleasant for her to go somewhere else, but it can be done. Also note that in those other examples, people are expected to plan ahead. If you’re going to be hungry later and want food from the store, you have to bring money. If you need to be in court at 2:00, and you don’t have a driver’s license, you have to ride the bus or call a cab. If your infant is going to be hungry when you’re in a public place, you have to… bring a bottle? Go somewhere a little more private? Doesn’t sound unreasonable. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by lee_ > \*\*[http://www.legis.state.il.us/legisl...Code+of+1961.](http://www.legis.state.il.us/legisl...Code+of+1961%2E) > > That statute is the one I referred to. Read it. It defines the conduct that would include birth as illegal and then makes an exception in certain conditions.\*\* Perhaps you could point out the particular statute you’re talking about. That web page would fill over 50 printed pages, and it encompasses everything from dismembering a human body, to cyberstalking, to compelling a confession with threats of violence. I searched that page for “genital” and “birth”, but the closest I found was “Sec. 12-34. Female genital mutilation”, which says nothing about children touching genitals. (If that’s the part you meant, then frankly, I think 12-34(a) is too broad, and the exceptions in (b) wouldn’t be necessary if (a) were more specific.) ---
**Author:** ![alexandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@alexandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alexandra)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breast-feeding-and-homesexuality-grow-up/214648/115 "2003-11-27T17:12:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > **A dirty old man wearing a trenchcoat, exposing his penis, is not erotic either. I have no doubt that most people who don’t consider a breastfeeding mother erotic would consider a nasty hobo’s wang even _less_ erotic.** The dirty old man is doing it for perverted, and sexual, reasons. I can’t believe people are comparing the two situations! Honestly. > [@](#): > > But note that even in the specific case of a breastfeeding mother with a starving baby sitting in the dining area of Burger King, it isn’t necessary for her to feed the baby right there. It may be inconvenient or unpleasant for her to go somewhere else, but it can be done. Why does she, and not the people complaining, have to go somewhere else? Why is it ok for it to be “inconvenient and unpleasant” for _her_, but the man complaining (who could simply avert his eyes) isn’t allowed to be slighty shocked/offended by - omg - a nipple! ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breast-feeding-and-homesexuality-grow-up/214648/116 "2003-11-28T02:28:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by alexandra \* > **The dirty old man is doing it for perverted, and sexual, reasons.** Oh? You mean he wouldn’t be breaking the law if he did it for other reasons? A woman who just likes being nude can go topless if she wants? I don’t think so. > [@](#): > > **Why does she, and not the people complaining, have to go somewhere else?** She doesn’t. I’m merely pointing out that it isn’t “necessary” for her to breastfeed her child in the middle of a restaurant. There are other ways to feed him, and/or other places to do it. > [@](#): > > \*\*Why is it ok for it to be “inconvenient and unpleasant” for _her_, but the man complaining (who could simply avert his eyes) isn’t allowed to be slighty shocked/offended by - omg - a nipple! \*\* Why is it OK for her to show her nipple in the middle of a restaurant, but not OK for a childless woman to show hers? ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breast-feeding-and-homesexuality-grow-up/214648/117 "2003-11-28T03:25:44Z")
Are you seriously unable to see the differences in the situations or are you arguing for the sake of it? Either way you’re coming off as an immature git. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breast-feeding-and-homesexuality-grow-up/214648/118 "2003-11-28T06:24:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Homebrew \* > **Are you seriously unable to see the differences in the situations or are you arguing for the sake of it?** Oh, I see the difference. The difference, however, doesn’t explain why one nipple is so offensive that it must be banned, and the other is not. > [@](#): > > \*\*Either way you’re coming off as an immature git. \*\* Pointing out hypocrisy is “immature” now, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breast-feeding-and-homesexuality-grow-up/214648/119 "2003-11-28T14:00:18Z")
Well, a few centuries ago, unmarried French/European maids showed off their nipples in daring gowns. Kinda odd that in the ensuing ages, the non-nursing nipple somehow became taboo, and it’s gotten to the point that now mothers nurturing their babies take crap because of it. I can see a bit of what **Mr2001** just tried to say, though I don’t think he’s being very clear. It is a bit hypocritical of society, to “ban” the displaying of the female nipple in “polite society” for the most part, leaving a big gaping pit for nursing mother’s to get stuck in. That said, I still think mom’s should have the right to feed their babies where ever eating is allowed. I think enough people have pointed out that not all nursing mothers are able to “pump” milk for later, and not all babies will accept the bottle. This is why the right to nurse your baby should not be limited by anyone but the person who is breastfeeding. Let the mom make the “judgement calls” about whether to wait, use a throw etc. As long as she’s not breaking a law, or deliberately being a jerk etc. let her be. ---
**Author:** ![alexandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@alexandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alexandra)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breast-feeding-and-homesexuality-grow-up/214648/120 "2003-11-28T18:34:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Why is it OK for her to show her nipple in the middle of a restaurant, but not OK for a childless woman to show hers? Because she’s feeding her child. And a man exposing himself, if he has as good a reason as that to do so, well he can go right ahead. Otherwise, the situations are clearly different. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breast-feeding-and-homesexuality-grow-up/214648.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breast-feeding-and-homesexuality-grow-up/214648.md?page=7)