# Breastfeeding, "nipple nazis," and "helpful" advice **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2008, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-nipple-nazis-and-helpful-advice/463104 "2008-09-11T15:21:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-nipple-nazis-and-helpful-advice/463104/41 "2008-09-11T20:31:37Z")
**Unauthorized Cinnamon** , I think the key to the issue is what you said in this paragraph of your OP: > [@](#): > > It’s the woman who says, “I tried to breastfeed, but I couldn’t,” and then it becomes clear that she did make her best effort, but was subtly undermined by her husband, other relatives, doctor, pediatrician, friends, neighbors, boss, and our culture in general. I think THIS is why breastfeeding support people will start digging around looking for things you can do differently, trying to correct bad information (often given by doctors), and offering ways to cope with difficulties, and maybe come across as saying, “You’re not trying hard enough.” The problem is, you can dig around and try to figure out & fix the mother’s problem all you want, but at the end of the day, she still has the husband, the relatives, the doctor, the friends, the neighbors, the boss, and the culture to deal with. If her husband, her mother, or her boss are unsupportive or undermining, then you are asking her (or she will perceive that you are asking her) to fight a battle that she may not be willing or able to fight. And if that is added on as a layer of guilt, her feelings toward you are not likely to be positive. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-nipple-nazis-and-helpful-advice/463104/42 "2008-09-11T20:56:32Z")
In third world countries, where formula is not available, how many women have problems breastfeeding? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-nipple-nazis-and-helpful-advice/463104/43 "2008-09-11T20:59:24Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > In third world countries, where formula is not available, how many women have problems breastfeeding? Part of the issue with problems is age. Many women in the first world are having children older. My wife was 40 when we did. How many third-world women are having their first child at 40? The experiences may not be directly comparable. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-nipple-nazis-and-helpful-advice/463104/44 "2008-09-11T20:59:39Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > I’d still like to see that SIDS study. This is a continuing sore spot with me, and in numerous other debates I’ve had on this topic, not one person has ever been able to produce it or direct me to a source for it. I’d like yo see the scientific argument behind it. I haven’t ever discussed it with you before, to the best of my knowledge, but [here is a study from 1993 on “Breastfeeding and the Risk of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome.”](http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/22/5/885) From the abstract. > [@](#): > > In the 3 years of the study there were 485 infant deaths classified as SIDS in the study areas and 1800 infants who were randomly selected as controls. Data were collected by parent interviews and from obstetric notes. A full set of data for this analysis was available from 356 cases and 1529 control infants. The rela tionship between length of any breastfeeding and SIDS was examined: 92% of the controls were initially breastfed compared to 86% of the cases. As time went by, cases stopped breastfeeding sooner than controls: by 13 weeks, 67% controls were breastfed versus 49% cases. A reduced risk for SIDS in breastfed infants persisted during the first 6 months after controlling for confounding demographic, maternal and infant factors. Infants exclusively breastfed ‘at discharge from the obstetric hospital’ (odds ratio [OR]=0.52, 95% confidence interval (CI):0.35–0.71) and during the last 2 days (OR=0.65, 95% Cl:0.46–0.91) had a significantly lower risk of SIDS than infants not breastfed after con trolling for potential confounders. We have shown a substantial association of breastfeeding with a lowered risk for SIDS. More articles are available through [Google Scholar](http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=breastfeed+sids+research&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&um=1&ie=UTF-8&oi=scholart). Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-nipple-nazis-and-helpful-advice/463104/45 "2008-09-11T21:06:23Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > In third world countries, where formula is not available, how many women have problems breastfeeding? But don’t they also have wet nurses? And increased mortality? ---
**Author:** ![spazattak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e8cbc/32.png) [@spazattak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spazattak)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-nipple-nazis-and-helpful-advice/463104/46 "2008-09-11T21:11:01Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > Would this help? The consensus of the US Public Health Service, Office of Women’s Health, published their [HHS Blueprint for Action on Breastfeeding](http://www.womenshealth.gov/breastfeeding/bluprntbk2.pdf)(PDF) in 2000 with a goal of getting 75% of women to breastfeed in the immediate post-delivery timeframe and to have 50% breastfeed for 5-6 months after birth, and 25% continue until at least one year. The blueprint was the work of over thirty public health professionals, representing international policymakers, the CDC, and numerous other health offices. The blueprint cites 175 scientific publications on the topic of breastfeeding and early childhood development. Most of it is not presented very succinct forms(although the blueprint itself isn’t very long, probably 12 pages or so) but here is a table of documented benefits of breastfeeding over formula feeding.The numbers in parenthesis are references to the studies cited at the end of the blueprint. > > Very little is said about negative effects of formula feeding. The only reference to formula feeding is a notice that additional regulation should be crafted or existing regulation enforced to keep formula makers from pushing their products in preference to breastfeeding. Simple logic would allow the inversion of the above list of benefits of breastfeeding into negatives of formula feeding. Other benefits of breastfeeding, which could be logically translated into negatives of formula feeding, are delineated in the text of the document. > > So, if one wants to present breastfeeding versus formula feeding as a public health issue, it seems they’re in good company. The national public health service, and numerous state, local, and international health services view it this way as well. > > Enjoy, > Steven Digging up the methodologies from cites indicates that they did indeed control for socioeconomic status and certain environmental factors. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-nipple-nazis-and-helpful-advice/463104/47 "2008-09-11T21:14:13Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > In third world countries, where formula is not available, how many women have problems breastfeeding? There may, in fact, be plenty, but there also may be friends and relatives around who are nursing and can help them out. Our pediatrician told us a story about a patient’s mother who was having trouble nursing. The family had emigrated from a middle-eastern country (I can’t remember which). The woman told our doctor that where she came from it wasn’t uncommon for a relative or friend with an older, nursing baby to “trade” with the new mother so she could practice nursing with an “experienced” baby. They also felt that the older, stronger baby could help increase her milk supply. My mother’s mother nursed a few neighbor’s babies, too (rural Kentucky), if they needed help for some reason. I think most Americans would find the idea rather oogy, nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-nipple-nazis-and-helpful-advice/463104/48 "2008-09-11T21:16:45Z")
Here’s a good example of someone who feels like your choice is her business. [http://thecowgoddess.com/](http://thecowgoddess.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-nipple-nazis-and-helpful-advice/463104/49 "2008-09-11T21:28:59Z")
> [@spazattak](#): > > Digging up the methodologies from cites indicates that they did indeed control for socioeconomic status and certain environmental factors. Thank you. No problem, it’s nice to find someone else who actually reads those things. I’m about the only non-healthcare professional I know who reads medical journal articles. I also read all the tiny fine print on the prescriptions I get. It drives my wife nuts when I can quote how many people involved in the clinical studies got diarrhea from antibiotic X. I find a lot of that stuff very interesting, even though I never use it in daily life. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-nipple-nazis-and-helpful-advice/463104/50 "2008-09-11T21:53:02Z")
I don’t have a dog in this fight, and it is an enormous topic. **Mtgman** has already provided a very good, relatively unbiased source on the relative benefits of breastfeeding. If you’d like to learn more, I wanted to contribute the most up to date, unbiased large scale review of the topic that I am aware of, which is the American Academy of Pediatric’s 2005 policy position on breastfeeding. It addresses the benefits of breastfeeding, when breastfeeding shouldn’t be used, banking of breast milk, and other topics. [http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;115/2/496](http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;115/2/496) Generally, the topic of breastfeeding’s effect on neurological development and IQ is a difficult one to study with a large number of confounding variables and very long time frames. The evidence supports breastfeeding, although breastfeeding advocates have likely overstated this to some extent. The advantage in terms of resilience to a number of common diseases in early childhood is indisputable. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-nipple-nazis-and-helpful-advice/463104/51 "2008-09-11T22:19:17Z")
> [@burundi](#): > > I see what you’re saying, but right now it seems that La Leche is asking individuals to take on all of the burdens and risks of lobbying employers. Well-paid, well-respected white-collar workers might be able to go to their employers and request accommodations that could be made without much difficulty. But what about teachers, as **spazattak** points out? Assembly-line workers? Coffeeshop baristas? Retail workers? Waitresses? Most mothers in the U.S. are employed, and if La Leche and other advocacy groups want to bring about real change, they need to realize that and act accordingly. I mentioned this in the other thread, and I think somewhere else on the board - that breastfeeding is, and has been, a class issue for a while now - but I was underwhelmed with the response. Not that the other thread was the appropriate place. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-nipple-nazis-and-helpful-advice/463104/52 "2008-09-11T23:08:38Z")
> [@SisterCoyote](#): > > I mentioned this in the other thread, and I think somewhere else on the board - that breastfeeding is, and has been, a class issue for a while now - but I was underwhelmed with the response. > > Not that the other thread was the appropriate place. Sorry - my response to you in my head was, “yep, I agree”, only I didn’t post it. And that’s the crux of it, really. I think breastfeeding should be a medical issue. Not a class issue, not a moral issue, not a parenting issue. A medical issue. And, as a medical issue, there should be research into it and better (hell, ANY!) medical treatments for those, like me, who really just can’t make it work. What we have right now is a group of well-meaning LAYPEOPLE, for the most part, trying to help one another (LLL) and a group of well-trained in an ill-understood field (lactation consultants) who have only about a dozen tricks up their sleeve (nipple shields, positioning, pumping, pillows - really? THIS is the sate of the art in breastfeeding assistance?! We can put a fucking man on the moon and we can’t increase milk supply?!). What we don’t have is droves of medical doctors doing medical research on the medical puzzle of how to increase milk supply in a population of the medically abnormal or chronically stressed. For the “really just can’t make it work”, yes, I can see why attempts at education and “keep with it” feel like attacks. God knows I spent enough 2 AM pumping sessions crying into the milk because I could only get 2 ounces despite the herbs, the diet, the quasi-legal Domperidone pills from an internet pharmacy in New Zealand, the visualizations of waterfalls, the smelling of the baby’s blanket, the whole 9 yards and then some! But really, if there was something better to offer us, they’d tell us. They’re not being meanies. “Stick with it” really is the best advice for 95% of the population. But it **is** kind of like telling a diabetic, “your blood sugars will normalize, just stick with it!” 😃 Perhaps some training in differentiating the medically unable from the sabotaged, ignorant or lazy would be helpful. But for that to happen, medicine would have to recognize hypolactation as a genuine medical problem and figure out how to treat it. Like **Unauthorized Cinnamon** , I’m mostly interested in educating those vast droves of women who \*could \*breastfeed, but chose not to. Yes, I’ll admit it, I do have a negative judgement towards that population. unlike what \*\*eleanorigby \*\*said in the other thread, I know literally dozens of women who have chosen not to even attempt breastfeeding because it’s “too much trouble” or “it’s gross”. I’m talking well off stay at home mothers here - no excuses about full time employment and pumping and bottles for daycare. And it’s THAT sort of thinking that I think is best addressed by changing our language and making breastmilk normal and formula inferior. Frankly, and I know I’m going to piss people off here, if you’re with your baby all the time, your breasts work just fine, you don’t have sexual trauma around your breasts and you just think it’s gross or troublesome to breastfeed, I think you’re a selfish shortsighted bitch. Or, perhaps, just perhaps, ignorant about (and I’m chosing my words with care) the shortcomings of formula. Not the benefits of breastmilk, but the shortchanging of formula. Which do you think might be more successful? Calling women selfish shortsighted ignorant bitches? Or rephrasing things so that people are actually faced with the consequences of their choices? “Benefits” are easy to turn down. “Shortcomings” are harder to accept, no? These women choose to decline the benefits of breastmilk - but would they be so quick to embrace the shortcomings of formula? Same action, different thought process. This language wasn’t invented by breastfeeding advocates or doctors. This language - the very phrase “breast is best, but…” was invented by advertisers trying to sell formula. Just like other slick advertising phrase, it’s designed to make their product look better than it is. And when research about the “benefits of breastfeeding” (which should be aka “the risks of formula feeding”) came out, those researchers fell right into those language patterns. They fell for it - they fell for the advertising, and kept using formula as the baseline, instead of breastmilk. This is against all standards of medical reporting - aspirin reduces blot clotting, insulin lowers blood sugar, Viagra increases erections, ibuprofen reduces pain - the “normal” is our body as it is without intervention. Only in infant feeding statistics is normal the artificial choice and the altered state the natural state of our bodies. What’s up with that? Breastmilk **doesn’t** raise IQ. It just doesn’t. Raised as a human infant, drinking human infant milk, that’s the IQ - that’s what it should be. Formula feeding LOWERS IQ. And so on and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![sj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@sj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sj2)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-nipple-nazis-and-helpful-advice/463104/53 "2008-09-11T23:34:52Z")
I wish when I was pregnant someone would have taken me aside and told me how much breastfeeding would hurt. I think I would have been better prepared for those initial struggles. It is the reality of breastfeeding that takes some women to early weening. It hurts. You leak. It makes you tired. There can be infections…and blood! It’s awesome, but it’s not the beautiful experience a lot of pregnant ladies think it’s gonna be! In hospital, I was treated poorly by the lactation consultants. I wanted to be alone and yet they kept barging in while I was perfecting my technique. Being a highly private person by nature, I resented their intrusion and one had the nerve to shake her head and wonder aloud if I was going to continue or not. I did, by the way. Now that my son is off the breast, I can look back at the experience and chuckle a bit at how emotional I was at things that were said…and things I perceived. Now that I am surrounded by moms all day, I see both camps…and witness great Mothers coming from each. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-nipple-nazis-and-helpful-advice/463104/54 "2008-09-11T23:50:05Z")
Meh. My parents gave me sweetened condensed milk. Not formula. Not breastmilk. Not even regular milk because it was too expensive. Stuff out of a can. I can understand women who can breastfeed choosing not to do so because it’s a PITA and they want their bodies back. Breastfeeding is like still being pregnant. Women in their first year(s) of motherhood with their first babies are going to be somewhat crazy. The hormones, the change in lifestyle, the all-consuming love of their child; it’s just all too much. I wouldn’t mess with them. Whatever they want to do, fine. There are MUCH bigger mistakes to be made down the road. It is interesting, though, what a previous poster said about new moms being handed “experienced” babies to nurse - that makes a lot of sense, I’ll be that’s how they get it done. And BTW, I thought that breast milk/IQ thing had been thoroughly debunked in the past few years? Wasn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-nipple-nazis-and-helpful-advice/463104/55 "2008-09-12T00:15:35Z")
> [@sj2](#): > > I wish when I was pregnant someone would have taken me aside and told me how much breastfeeding would hurt. I think I would have been better prepared for those initial struggles. It is the reality of breastfeeding that takes some women to early weening. It hurts. You leak. It makes you tired. There can be infections…and blood! It’s awesome, but it’s not the beautiful experience a lot of pregnant ladies think it’s gonna be! I agree and disagree here. If you mean that breastfeeding makes your nipples sore for the first couple weeks, I agree. And it pisses me off when some advocates say, no no, it never hurts at all. It does. Your nipples are doing things they’ve never done before, and it takes a little time to adjust. I also agree that it helps to know that there can be problems - I thought, “nipple, baby, how hard could it be?” and oh boy, did I get an answer to that! But, if you’re saying that breastfeeding hurts the whole time you do it, I think this is a great example of you getting misinformation and lack of support that could undermine breastfeeding. After the first couple weeks, pain is an indicator that something is wrong. At any time, pain that makes your toes curl and your eyes water is an indication that something is wrong. Infections and blood are indications that something is really, really wrong! This is not the normal course of breastfeeding. If you were in pain for months on end and kept going, I am so impressed with your fortitude. But I think not many women have that much strength and dedication, and if we want to help people breastfeed in accordance with AAP recommendations, we really do need to make sure that someone in that situation gets correct information and help, immediately. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-nipple-nazis-and-helpful-advice/463104/56 "2008-09-12T00:21:00Z")
I come from a culture of breastfeeders. I find those who are squicked by breastfeeding a bit…odd. Breastfeeding is just the Right Way to Do It, in my mind. So I totally get why some who really believe in breastfeeding are pushy about it. But if a woman really can’t do it, then she should have alternatives, eh? ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-nipple-nazis-and-helpful-advice/463104/57 "2008-09-12T00:55:16Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > But there’s the rub. People, myself included, cannot just throw out anecdotal evidence that is right in front of them in lieu of a study by a pointy head on the east coast. I have three kids that look at me every day who were breast fed at most for six weeks. They are the epitome of healthy, happy kids. > > My sister in law breast fed both of her kids for at least a year or more. Both kids have terrible food allergies, breathing problems and general health issues. How exactly am I supposed to look at the stark contrast between the two and in good faith, accept that we were somehow wrong in feeding our kids what we did when we did? I don’t know. It makes me skeptical too. I have allergies and asthma, and they gave me so much tetracycline for ear infections when I was small that it discolored my permanent teeth. My mom had postpartum depression too …and I was breastfed until I was on solid foods. Committing to breastfeeding already knowing that the proported benefits aren’t definite seems like a lot of effort for women who are struggling. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-nipple-nazis-and-helpful-advice/463104/58 "2008-09-12T00:58:53Z")
I formula fed my adopted son and breastfed my daughter…and I fail to see how its ANYONE’S business that I did either. Why do we spend all this effort on breastfeeding and almost none on how much fast food they eat or how much soda they drink three years later? Why did I get pressured from all corners to breastfeed, but looked at like an alien when I feed my kids organic tofu. Why are breastfeeding advocates in your face (and literally, when bottlefeeding my son, and after six months when my daughter rejected the breast, my daughter - rude enough to come up to you and tell you you were doing the wrong thing) and elementary school feeds my kids chicken nuggets and apple dippers and calls it food. I suspect we’d get healthier and smarter kids if we tackled something that doesn’t have the emotional impact of breastfeeding - the diet of a kid from two to eighteen - without managing to piss off, depress, and annoy a bunch of well meaning people who DID give it a shot. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-nipple-nazis-and-helpful-advice/463104/59 "2008-09-12T01:00:31Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > But, if you’re saying that breastfeeding hurts the whole time you do it, I think this is a great example of you getting misinformation and lack of support that could undermine breastfeeding. After the first couple weeks, pain is an indicator that something is wrong. At any time, pain that makes your toes curl and your eyes water is an indication that something is wrong. Infections and blood are indications that something is really, really wrong! This is not the normal course of breastfeeding. I wonder at statements like this – just look at the huge range of pain responses in the recent dental threads. It IS actually possible that what is “fleeting discomfort” for one person is “intolerable pain” for another. One person can have a root canal with just local, another has local, nitrous, and xanax and is still screaming from the pain. Pain is actually not a completely understood phenomenon – it is simply not possible to predict what subjective experience of pain another person will have in any circumstance. How can you even claim that you could? ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-nipple-nazis-and-helpful-advice/463104/60 "2008-09-12T01:25:32Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Like **Unauthorized Cinnamon** , I’m mostly interested in educating those vast droves of women who \*could \*breastfeed, but chose not to. Yes, I’ll admit it, I do have a negative judgement towards that population. unlike what \*\*eleanorigby \*\*said in the other thread, I know literally dozens of women who have chosen not to even attempt breastfeeding because it’s “too much trouble” or “it’s gross”. I’m talking well off stay at home mothers here - no excuses about full time employment and pumping and bottles for daycare. And it’s THAT sort of thinking that I think is best addressed by changing our language and making breastmilk normal and formula inferior. Frankly, and I know I’m going to piss people off here, if you’re with your baby all the time, your breasts work just fine, you don’t have sexual trauma around your breasts and you just think it’s gross or troublesome to breastfeed, I think you’re a selfish shortsighted bitch. Or, perhaps, just perhaps, ignorant about (and I’m chosing my words with care) the shortcomings of formula. Not the benefits of breastmilk, but the shortchanging of formula. > > Which do you think might be more successful? Calling women selfish shortsighted ignorant bitches? Or rephrasing things so that people are actually faced with the consequences of their choices? “Benefits” are easy to turn down. “Shortcomings” are harder to accept, no? These women choose to decline the benefits of breastmilk - but would they be so quick to embrace the shortcomings of formula? Same action, different thought process. So, because I choose not to breastfeed, even though I was at home, I am a “selfish shortsighted bitch”? Think about what you’re saying here… Until someone tells me that bottle-feeding creates a serious health risk, I say you (not you specifically, but those with that mindset) are a judgmental harpy. I did hours of research, with both of my children, and found no evidence that choosing to bottle feed my children would put them in harm’s way. I am fully aware of the immunological benefits of breastfeeding; however, I also faced overwhelming evidence, in the form of most of the people I know, that bottle-feeding was not detrimental. If you personally think that women like me are selfish shortsighted bitches, then me thinks it will probably leak out in your attitude toward new mothers who may be having problems. I also suspect that you are unable to be rational about the subject, in the same way that many mothers of autistic children can be unbalanced on the subject of vaccinations. Ultimately, in spite of the self-righteousness attitude of LLL and people like you, it’s none of your business to make decisions about my children. Would you support a law to make it mandatory? To \*\*others \*\*- thanks for the links! I’ll poke around them and see what the data says… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-nipple-nazis-and-helpful-advice/463104.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-nipple-nazis-and-helpful-advice/463104.md?page=4)