# Breastfeeding versus urinating: Surely this is a false analogy. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 4, 2016, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-versus-urinating-surely-this-is-a-false-analogy/756487 "2016-06-04T13:37:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-versus-urinating-surely-this-is-a-false-analogy/756487/41 "2016-06-05T01:26:04Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > How far should society go to accommodate women who are breast feeding? How far should women go to accommodate a society that is breast-feeding-shaming and women’s-body-shaming? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-versus-urinating-surely-this-is-a-false-analogy/756487/42 "2016-06-05T01:31:39Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > How far should women go to accommodate a society that is breast-feeding-shaming and women’s-body-shaming? That’s up to each woman to decide for herself. I disagree though with the characterization that, as an example, a fine dining restaurant not allowing breast feeding in its dining room amounts to “breast-feeding-shaming and women’s-body-shaming”. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-versus-urinating-surely-this-is-a-false-analogy/756487/43 "2016-06-05T06:19:58Z")
The difference between breastfeeding and urination is that not being able to breastfeed in public would sharply limit nursing women’s ability to participate in society and live an ordinary life. The alternative is for nursing women to be nearly housebound, able to leave home for just short periods of time. As a society, we’ve decided that’s not a good arrangement, and we can handle seeing the occasional boob. Urination presents no such restriction. Nobody’s way of life is particularly compromised because they can’t urinate in public (well, maybe the homeless). We have appropriate urination facilities everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-versus-urinating-surely-this-is-a-false-analogy/756487/44 "2016-06-05T06:24:21Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Thanks for the info that not all babies will accept a bottle. I think I probably knew that but forgot. Not all milk supplies will handle it well, either. Missing a feeding can be very physically uncomfortable, and if you replace a feeding with a bottle that means you are looking at quite a while before you can relieve the pressure. In theory you could travel with a pump, but finding an appropriate place to pump is even harder than finding a place to nurse. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-versus-urinating-surely-this-is-a-false-analogy/756487/45 "2016-06-05T13:25:20Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > Nothing in your response changes my point. Yes, it does. The key difference is in the expectations placed on adults versus infants, and also on the relative burdens placed by the prohibition on the surrounding public. Adults are not allowed to cry and scream at the top of their lungs when they need to pee in a public place. Babies who are hungry in a public place, however, have no such restrictions. So banning breastfeeding, unlike banning public urination, subjects other people in the vicinity to a seriously annoying nuisance. While I agree that the “it’s natural” defense is a lousy justification for public breastfeeding, since there are so many other things that are also natural that are **not** permitted in public, I don’t agree that therefore there’s **no** significant difference between breastfeeding and acts such as urination and defecation in public. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-versus-urinating-surely-this-is-a-false-analogy/756487/46 "2016-06-05T14:57:08Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > Nothing in your response changes my point. > mmm It _accepts_ your point. When the need is great, we allow people to pee in public without consequence. Adults as well as babies. If you HAVE to pee in public, you can, unless you’re an undesirable person. Drunks and rowdies are not considered to HAVE to pee in public, they just do it because they’re drunk/lazy/having too much fun to leave. The need for a baby to breastfeed on demand is as great as the need for a motorist to pull over and pee on the side of the highway because there are no bathrooms. You said: “So by your reasoning if there ever had been a time when you found it necessary to pee in public it would have been acceptable to do so.” And I’m saying: “Yes, exactly.” ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-versus-urinating-surely-this-is-a-false-analogy/756487/47 "2016-06-05T15:26:52Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I think this highlights the crux of the issue. How far should society go to accommodate women who are breast feeding? I’m struggling to imagine a plausible accommodation for breastfeeding that would be going too far. The nursing mother provides the milk herself. I’m not a mother so maybe I’m missing something, but it seems like the only other thing she’d need would be for people to just leave her alone and let her feed her baby. That doesn’t seem like a lot to ask of society. If nursing mothers were demanding a separate entrance to be used only by nursing mothers or something then I’d be opposed to that because it’s unnecessary and would place an unreasonable burden on business owners, but I’ve never heard of anything like that happening. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-versus-urinating-surely-this-is-a-false-analogy/756487/48 "2016-06-05T15:33:08Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I’m struggling to imagine a plausible accommodation for breastfeeding that would be going too far. The nursing mother provides the milk herself. I’m not a mother so maybe I’m missing something, but it seems like the only other thing she’d need would be for people to just leave her alone and let her feed her baby. That doesn’t seem like a lot to ask of society. > > If nursing mothers were demanding a separate entrance to be used only by nursing mothers or something then I’d be opposed to that because it’s unnecessary and would place an unreasonable burden on business owners, but I’ve never heard of anything like that happening. Then in your view it is too much to ask if a given venue has a dress code? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-versus-urinating-surely-this-is-a-false-analogy/756487/49 "2016-06-05T15:55:22Z")
A baby or child’s biological necessity should trump Mrs. Grundy’s dress code that is based on social and gender ineqauality. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-versus-urinating-surely-this-is-a-false-analogy/756487/50 "2016-06-05T16:00:13Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > You said: “So by your reasoning if there ever had been a time when you found it necessary to pee in public it would have been acceptable to do so.” > > And I’m saying: “Yes, exactly.” I disagree , perhaps because my experience with public restroom availability is different from other people’s. My kids were involved in sports when they were young and the various parks and fields where they played came in only two types - the ones without restrooms and the ones where the restrooms were not open during all of the hours the park/field was open. If am shopping at a mall or at an individual large store, there will be restrooms- but if I am shopping on a commercial strip composed of small individual stores, there will be no public restrooms except in some (not all) of the restaurants \* and those are restricted to customers. It still would not be socially acceptable for me to pee in public even if I am not drunk or rowdy and should I do so in the presence of a police officer I will likely get a ticket, even I am not drunk or rowdy. Although I suppose I might avoid the ticket if I am willing to soak my pants. And the lack of restrooms restricts me - I have never been to Times Square for New Years Eve and other similar events in large part because of the extended lack of restroom access. Sure, if I pull over at the side of the road and go into the bushes where no one can see me to pee, no one will complain- but no one will complain about a woman breastfeeding under those circumstances either. I’m not saying that there is no difference between breastfeeding in public and urinating in public. There is a difference - and it’s not necessarily true that if the need to urinate were as great as the need to feed the baby it would be socially acceptable. In fact, one of the biggest differences between breastfeeding in public and urinating in public is that social acceptability - virtually no one thinks it’s socially acceptable to urinate in public. Allowances may be made if it’s truly unavoidable, but that’s not the same as being socially acceptable. On the other hand, lots of people believe it’s socially acceptable to breastfeed in public - which is no doubt why there are now laws protecting women who breastfeed in public while there were no such laws in the 60s and 70s when attitudes were different. - NYC requires restaurants with 20 seats or more to have public restrooms. So the Dunkin Donuts, pizzeria , Subway or Chinese takeout with 12 seats isn’t required to have them and generally doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-versus-urinating-surely-this-is-a-false-analogy/756487/51 "2016-06-05T16:19:24Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Then in your view it is too much to ask if a given venue has a dress code? Yes. The only time breastfeeding should not be allowed is if babies are not allowed. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-versus-urinating-surely-this-is-a-false-analogy/756487/52 "2016-06-05T16:29:35Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > The only time breastfeeding should not be allowed is if babies are not allowed. I’ve often said “where eating is not allowed” but I think your statement covers it better. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-versus-urinating-surely-this-is-a-false-analogy/756487/53 "2016-06-05T17:27:43Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Then in your view it is too much to ask if a given venue has a dress code? I don’t understand the question. What do dress codes have to do with anything? If a nursing mother is dressed inappropriately for the venue then I don’t think the fact that she’s lactating means she should get to do whatever she wants, but if the dress code requires clothing that makes it impossible to nurse (and allows no exceptions for breastfeeding) then that’s an overly restrictive and possibly discriminatory dress code. If you’re talking about protective gear like a bulletproof vest or something then for safety reasons it seems best to not make a breastfeeding exception, but a baby shouldn’t be brought into such a situation either. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-versus-urinating-surely-this-is-a-false-analogy/756487/54 "2016-06-06T03:28:55Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Then in your view it is too much to ask if a given venue has a dress code? I’m guessing if we’re talking about a fancy restaurant where formal wear is required, there probably aren’t going to be any infants present to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-versus-urinating-surely-this-is-a-false-analogy/756487/55 "2016-06-06T03:43:31Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I think this highlights the crux of the issue. How far should society go to accommodate women who are breast feeding? Let’s remember that it’s the _baby_, not the mother who is actually being accommodated. ---
**Author:** ![katpohl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b782af/32.png) [@katpohl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/katpohl)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-versus-urinating-surely-this-is-a-false-analogy/756487/56 "2016-06-06T04:59:50Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > So by your reasoning if there ever \*had \*been a time when you found it necessary to pee in public it would have been acceptable to do so. > > If not, your rationale is meaningless. > mmm As an adult I don’t have to go the moment I feel the need . I am able to ‘hold it’ until I find a restroom . So there wouldn’t ever be a time that I would have or will find it necessary to pee in public. As a mom who breast fed ,when my child needed to be fed I didn’t have the option of waiting till I found some where private . apples vs. oranges. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breastfeeding-versus-urinating-surely-this-is-a-false-analogy/756487.md?page=2)