# Breeders Cup 2010 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 6, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breeders-cup-2010/559699 "2010-11-06T14:42:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breeders-cup-2010/559699/1 "2010-11-06T14:42:27Z")
Doesn’t seem to be any threads so I’ll start out. I wonder how much hide Castellano got ripped off for that $90,000 bump in the Marathon. The Juvenile Fillies Turf set a track record – by .02 – but nothing is mentioned in the DRF charts. Does the margin have to be the traditional 1/5 for the feat to be noted? In any event, you go, girl. Keeping fingers crosssed for Zee this afternoon. ---
**Author:** ![Ruffian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@Ruffian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruffian)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breeders-cup-2010/559699/2 "2010-11-06T20:38:06Z")
God bless DVR–the only way this horse racing fanatic can watch with a 10mo old and 4 1/2yro in the house. Both boys are down for a nap, and hubby is helping wrangle them as he knows this is a Holy Day for me. Borel looked possessed going after Castellano–WTF? Of course, that kind of riding (whoever was at fault) can get a person killed, so I suppose boiling blood is understandable. Terrible seeing that poor baby Rough Sailing go down in the Juvenile Turf. I thought he’d broken down, then was relieved on the replay to see he’d only slipped…then was crestfallen to hear he’d broken his shoulder in the fall. Dammit. My own mare took a hard fall onto her shoulder once because she’d forgotten at the time that she was 20 and not 2. She took a sharp turn at high speed in turnout and her legs got all tangled up under her. She fell hard onto her left shoulder, then cantered off on three legs before stopping and looking at me like, “Owwwwwww…little help, please.” Thankfully, she was just badly bruised–some rest and bute, and she was back to her young-at-heart-self. Uncle Mo is someTHIN. Wow. Curious to see if he can get the classic distance, but for now, he’s an absolute monster. Something to look forward to since Zenyatta is retiring. Gahhhh, I hope Z does it–oh, man, I hope she does it. I have waited my entire life for a Superhorse, and I have seen many, many _very_ good horses, remarkable, rare animals…Cigar, Alysheba, Sunday Silence and Easy Goer, Point Given, Curlin, and Rachel Alexandra…but all of them failed somewhere. She is an amazing, amazing story and an otherworldly talent–I swear she defies physics. 300 yards from the wire, it looks impossible and like she’ll lose by a half. Then she _wins_ by a half with her ears pricked. Oh please, oh please! ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breeders-cup-2010/559699/3 "2010-11-06T23:01:33Z")
I hate to say it but I blame Mike Smith for that. She had the talent. She had the guts. All she needed was the room and it was his job to find it for her. He should have kept her on the outside instead of drifting in to the rail. ---
**Author:** ![gladtobeblazed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85f322/32.png) [@gladtobeblazed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gladtobeblazed)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breeders-cup-2010/559699/4 "2010-11-07T00:05:48Z")
Well that’s a damn shame she didn’t win. My cousin turned me on to handicapping just a few months ago, so this is my first Breeder’s Cup. I’m sad to say it went down as I expected. Zenyatta’s last two victories didn’t impress me, it looked like she was losing form. ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breeders-cup-2010/559699/5 "2010-11-07T01:06:30Z")
Not that I would ever be a race horse owner, but I sure wouldn’t want to own one that ran races Zenyatta’s way–come from behind at the last minute . . . But she was oh so close even so. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breeders-cup-2010/559699/6 "2010-11-07T02:13:45Z")
> [@gladtobeblazed](#): > > Well that’s a damn shame she didn’t win. My cousin turned me on to handicapping just a few months ago, so this is my first Breeder’s Cup. I’m sad to say it went down as I expected. Zenyatta’s last two victories didn’t impress me, it looked like she was losing form. Nah it was the traffic jam at the stretch that was the problem. Smith had to check her and then yank her back outside after getting stuck on the rail behind the front runners. Still, another three strides and she’d have had it. I note the time of the race 2:02 - faster than the last two Kentucky Derbies and equal to Street Sense & Big Brown. Barbaro in 2006 was a second faster - may he rest in peace. ---
**Author:** ![Ruffian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@Ruffian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruffian)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breeders-cup-2010/559699/7 "2010-11-07T03:07:52Z")
Aw, _dammit_. I believe Smith cost her the race–[and he does, too](http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/59778/heartbreaking-thriller-blame-beats-zenyatta). I could not believe how out of contact with the field she became. I was afraid she was going to be pulled up or finish dead last and this was going to end not as a heartbreaker, but a disaster. OKay, I wrote that paragraph in an all too brief moment of quiet before my boys’ bedtime, and now that I’m back to finish my post, I’m changing my initial opinion that Smith was at fault. Z didn’t handle the track, and he did all he could. That she _did_ come roaring from way freaking out there and nearly win says a _lot_ about her caliber. A cleaner trip, and she would have won. She beat a _helluva_ field, minus one. I was stunned Quality Road was last–wonder what happened there. Poor Mike is heartbroken. While I am disappointed, I am proud of her. 20 races, 19 wins, 1 second, nearly $7 million in earnings…yeah, best mare of all time, certainly. I’d love to see her go to Dubai, but she has earned her retirement. I wonder if the farms would waive stud fees to try and get her to their stallion. I screamed and cheered so much in the home stretch, my 4yro was worried. “What is it, Mommy? What’s wrong?” After the race, I explained that the horse I really, really liked lost, and I was cheering because I wanted her to win. But, she nearly won and was second, and I said, “And you know what?” “What?” bright eyed one asked. “They’re saying she’s one of the best horses _ever ever **ever** _, even though she lost. Isn’t that amazing?” My eldest beamed and grinned and hugged me excitedly, “Wow, Mommy! I’m proud of her!” he said. Yeah…me too. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breeders-cup-2010/559699/8 "2010-11-07T06:53:54Z")
I feel bad for Mike. I’m not surprised he blames himself (since I’ve blamed him twice now.) He’s a good jockey though and has a lot of wins still ahead of him. I was also worried for a bit that something was wrong, she was so far back. I can’t help wishing they’d bring her back next year. I know she’s six but she sure didn’t look like a horse on her last legs. I’d love to see a rematch with Blame. She’s definitely one of the best I’ve ever seen. That race will be talked about for years! I wonder if they’ve decided on a stud, yet? ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breeders-cup-2010/559699/9 "2010-11-07T13:07:05Z")
> [@Ruffian](#): > > “They’re saying she’s one of the best horses _ever ever **ever** _, even though she lost. Isn’t that amazing?” Yes. Yes it is. I think Zee was robbed of Horse of the Year last year. A co-title with Rachael I could have lived with but IMHO Rachael was not quite the horse Zenyatta is, an opinion vindicated by both their campaigns this season. I was calling Zenyatta _The Horse that Shows Up._ Ah, well. That’s horse racing. ---
**Author:** ![Ruffian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@Ruffian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruffian)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breeders-cup-2010/559699/10 "2010-11-07T14:54:55Z")
As I was slowly awakening this morning, I replayed the Classic over and over in my mind. And what I realized was what a **HELL** of a run Zenyatta made. Most horses would have quit being that far back and uncomfortable; very, very good horses would have gradually adjusted and managed to get in the middle of the pack. Only an equine superathlete like Zenyatta could turn what looked like a disaster on the backstretch into a nailbiting near-win at the wire. I will be very curious if the racing analysts reveal she covered the last quarter mile in some ridiculous time. **DesertDog** I too wish she could have been Horse of the Year last year. I concede, though, that Rachel Alexandra had the tougher campaign last year (though Zenyatta had the best race). I wish, oh man I wish, Zenyatta could be Horse of the Year this year. Sure, Blame has earned it, but she’s earned something more than just champion older female three years in a row. Funny, she’s easily the horse of the decade–if not horse of the last three decades–but she will never be Horse of the Year. **Merneith** , the rumor in the racing world is Zenyatta will be sent to Megdalia d’Oro. ---
**Author:** ![Ruffian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@Ruffian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruffian)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breeders-cup-2010/559699/11 "2010-11-07T15:41:09Z")
Interesting. Apparently before the Classic, it was hinted Zenyatta may not retire after all. Apparently Moss made the decision was made without input from wifey, heh. The racing community is saying if she ran in the Dubai World Cup, she’d be on a synthetic surface, get the world’s attention, $10 million is a helluva consolation, and she’d still be able to be retired and bred in April. Interesting. I rather hope she’s retired, as she’s earned it. She seems very happy running and is far from tired or burned out (as Rachel Alexandra was), but well…it seems time. Then again, the point was made in an online racing forum that if she throws foals like herself, it would mean very large, slow maturing get that wouldn’t hit the track until age 4. ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breeders-cup-2010/559699/12 "2010-11-07T21:50:33Z")
> [@Ruffian](#): > > …yeah, best mare of all time, certainly. In America. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ruffian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@Ruffian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruffian)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breeders-cup-2010/559699/13 "2010-11-07T22:08:37Z")
But of course. 🙂 Now, who would you say is the best English (or European) mare of all time? I always had an affection for Pebbles, although Goldikova’s record will be hard to beat. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breeders-cup-2010/559699/14 "2010-11-08T12:05:46Z")
> [@Ruffian](#): > > . . . although Goldikova’s record will be hard to beat. Speaking of whom, wasn’t that a great finish _she_ had, and happier to boot. ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breeders-cup-2010/559699/15 "2010-11-08T20:18:52Z")
> [@Ruffian](#): > > But of course. 🙂 > > Now, who would you say is the best English (or European) mare of all time? I always had an affection for Pebbles, although Goldikova’s record will be hard to beat. [Sceptre](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sceptre_%28horse%29) (1901-1904). One of only two fillies to win four classics in the history of the sport in this country, she finished fourth in the one she didn’t win. No trainer in his right mind would even attempt this feat nowadays simply because the 1,000 Guineas and 2,000 Guineas are run so close together - as are the Derby and the Oaks. Sceptre was by no means unbeaten - she lost a number of races - but this can be put down to her owner, Robert Sievier. There’s an excellent biography of this dude entitled _Neck or Nothing: Extraordinary Life and Times of Bob Sievier_ by John Welcome. Anyone remotely interested in the racing scene in Victorian & Edwardian times would enjoy it. It’s just full of rogues. Sievier did not campaign his horse in any way sympathetically. He often used her as a medium for a gamble because he loved to have a bet, and frequently got into trouble with the bookmakers. Therefore he entered and ran her in races that were totally unsuitable for the horse. In fact, he ran her into the ground. From the link, Sceptre’s record as a 3-y-o in 1902 looks like this (I’ve added the race distances to illustrate her versatility): > [@](#): > > Staggeringly by modern standards, Sceptre began her season in the Lincolnshire Handicap (1 mile) with Sievier backing her to win £30,000. She carried 6 stone 7 pounds but was beaten by a head. She then went to Newmarket and won both the 2,000 Guineas in a then record time of 1 minute 39 seconds and then two days later (the) 1,000 Guineas (both 1 mile in early May). Her next target was the Derby (1 mile 4 furlongs in early June) but she bruised a foot ten days before the race and finished fourth behind Ard Patrick after being left at the start. Two days later she came out and won the Epsom Oaks (1 mile 4 furlongs)… then twice at Royal Ascot (over 4 days in mid-June), where she was fourth in the Coronation Stakes (1 mile) and won (the) St. James’s Palace Stakes (1 mile). Sceptre also ran twice at Glorious Goodwood (over 5 days in July) where she was beaten in the Sussex Stakes (1 mile) on the opening day but won the Nassau Stakes (1 mile 2 furlongs) three days later after being galloped on the intervening two days. At the autumn (September) meeting at Doncaster she won her fourth classic, the St. Leger (1 mile 6 furlongs) but Sieiver than ran her again two days later over the same course and distance in the Park Hill Stakes, in which she was beaten. Sceptre was top class from 1 mile to 1 mile 6 furlongs. She won on flat galloping tracks over a straight course, around the right hand turns and undulations of Goodwood, and around the left hand bends and gradients of Epsom. I’m totally convinced that a Sceptre trained with the horse’s welfare and racing career in mind, rather than the financial needs of her owner, would have been famous across the globe even at a distance of over 100 years. Her defeats may dull the lustre of her achievements in some eyes but not for me. This is my candidate. If you don’t like her, I have others. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breeders-cup-2010/559699/16 "2010-11-08T20:24:06Z")
> [@Ruffian](#): > > Interesting. Apparently before the Classic, it was hinted Zenyatta may not retire after all. Apparently Moss made the decision was made without input from wifey, heh. The racing community is saying if she ran in the Dubai World Cup, she’d be on a synthetic surface, get the world’s attention, $10 million is a helluva consolation, and she’d still be able to be retired and bred in April. Interesting. Plus she’d retire as the all-time leading money winner. ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breeders-cup-2010/559699/17 "2010-11-08T20:27:51Z")
> [@Ruffian](#): > > But of course. 🙂 > > Now, who would you say is the best English (or European) mare of all time? I always had an affection for Pebbles, although Goldikova’s record will be hard to beat. How about [Kincsem](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kincsem)? Forget 19 for 19; she almost caught Joe DiMaggio! ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breeders-cup-2010/559699/18 "2010-11-08T22:00:50Z")
> [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](#): > > How about [Kincsem](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kincsem)? Forget 19 for 19; she almost caught Joe DiMaggio! 54 from 54 looks good numerically but you’ve got to question the quality of the opposition she beat in achieving these numbers. Hungary, Germany, and Austria are not now and were not then hotbeds of racing. ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breeders-cup-2010/559699/19 "2010-11-08T22:12:08Z")
> [@Chez\_Guevara](#): > > 54 from 54 looks good numerically but you’ve got to question the quality of the opposition she beat in achieving these numbers. > > Hungary, Germany, and Austria are not now and were not then hotbeds of racing. Okay - [Makybe Diva](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makybe_Diva) (European bred, Aussie-raced) is worth a mention then. ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breeders-cup-2010/559699/20 "2010-11-08T22:24:09Z")
Totally worth a mention. Her weight-carrying performance in the 2005 Melbourne Cup was particularly impressive. Also, Australia is no backwater of racing. In recent years, Aussie trainers have often come over here to plunder our Grade 1 sprints.