# Brett Favre to the Vikings **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 4, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brett-favre-to-the-vikings/495333 "2009-05-04T20:47:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brett-favre-to-the-vikings/495333/142 "2009-08-19T14:40:36Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Which would you rather have: > > Favre with Sage as a backup > or > Sage with Tavarus as a backup? Tarvaris is a young guy from a small school. Childress was an idiot to throw him out there as early as he did; he was obviously always going to be a developmental prospect. At this point, he should be just about ready. In any case, hidden by the benching is the fact that he actually played fairly well last year- 9 touchdowns, 2 interceptions, nearly 60% completion percentage and a 95 passer rating in about 6 1/2 games. The only real problem was that he took too many sacks. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brett-favre-to-the-vikings/495333/143 "2009-08-19T14:48:45Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > No. Other QBs aren’t as hesitant to hold on to the ball, take the sack and lose a few yards. Favre is more likely to attempt to thread the needle and make something where there’s nothing. Get’s him into trouble often. That wasn’t my point. My point was that every even halfway competent QB is better with a running game and time to throw. Which is why getting a pass rush is widely recognized as one of the most important facets of the game. > [@Hampshire](#): > > Nonsense. He practices and works hard all season and watches tons of film. Baloney. The main reason he’s played these retirement games for the last few years is to avoid practice, to avoid training camp, and it is precisely the reason why he didn’t sign with the Vikings back in May. > [@Hampshire](#): > > The Jets offense was something totally new to him and he learned it as best he could but it can take years to adjust to that style. The Vikings offensive style is what he knows and he even commented that he can run those plays in his sleep. The Vikings playbook was only running at 50% for Tavarus (based on ability) and 50% for Sage (based on knowledge). They are confident Favre can run the playbook at 100%. > It’s no secret he doesn’t like training camp but once the season starts he’s 100% dedicated time and effort wise. When it’s on Favre’s terms, Favre is dedicated. When he finds a team that will let him skip training camp, Favre is dedicated. When he gets credit for the wins, but not the loses, Favre is dedicated. When it comes to getting his old ass in OTAs, minicamps, training camp, not so much. When it comes to getting on the same page with his receivers, not so much. When it comes to playing for the team and not Brett Favre, not so much. > [@Hampshire](#): > > He had decided to stay retired 3 weeks ago and was going to live with that decision. He didn’t come crawling back to the Vikings asking to play, they came back to him. If he doesn’t feel training camp is any benefit to him (the guys been doing this thing for 15+ years) and the coaches and owners feel the same way why is there a problem? He earned it. When the rookies and 3-4 year guys have been around that long maybe they can skip too. Like I said. He found a team that will not only let him, but pay him millions to be a prima donna. You can excuse it by saying that he’s earned that right, that he already knows the playbook, that he can develop timing with his receivers in the next month, but he’s still a prima donna. Maybe it will work out for the Vikings, maybe it won’t. We will see. ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brett-favre-to-the-vikings/495333/144 "2009-08-19T15:59:24Z")
I think it makes us a Super Bowl contender. As big as a name he is, he’s really only page 3 story when you consider the Vikings from a football perspective. Page 1: AP. Page 2: The Defense page 3: Favre We’ve obviously got the running game (AP, Taylor, Harvin), and Favre is going to make us look much better on 3rd and long. Our offense should be extremely dynamic – Harvin now has a QB who will allow the playbook to be opened, and Favre is sure to turn Shiancoe into a star. He loves his tight ends – think Bubba Franks. The only question mark on defense is whether the Williams boys will miss the first 4 games or not. Frankly, I’d be OK with it, as they’d be rested for a playoff run. Anything less than 12-4 with an appearance in the NFC championship (Eagles or Giants) is going to be a bit disappointing. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brett-favre-to-the-vikings/495333/145 "2009-08-19T16:25:58Z")
> [@unwashed\_brain](#): > > Page 1: AP. > Page 2: The Defense > page 3: Favre AP is pretty good, of course… but your defense is not great (except against the run) and Favre’s overall numbers last season were pedestrian - with a better receiving corps and a better pass-blocking line. Bubba Franks never had more than 450 receiving yards with or without Favre. He became a star because no other TE in the league was any good at catching passes. Harvin is a rookie, and rookie receivers rarely make an impact. Moreover, the ones who do are rarely thes you expect. Sure, he could be DeSean Jackson- but he’s much more likely to be Ted Ginn. ---
**Author:** ![MN\_Maenad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MN\_Maenad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MN_Maenad)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brett-favre-to-the-vikings/495333/146 "2009-08-19T16:26:12Z")
> [@furt](#): > > It’s not about the money, though, it’s about feeding his massive ego, and fuck everybody else – including his new teammates, who said they only wanted him if he was willing to go through camp with them. I’ll say. What a tool. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brett-favre-to-the-vikings/495333/147 "2009-08-19T16:28:27Z")
I live by the Dome. I find this news to be most unsettling. ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brett-favre-to-the-vikings/495333/148 "2009-08-19T17:20:53Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > AP is pretty good, of course… but your defense is not great (except against the run) #6 overall D last year, 4th in sacks, 4th in 3rd down percentage. All this and we get EJ Henderson back this year (missed 12 games in '08). > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > and Favre’s overall numbers last season were pedestrian - with a better receiving corps and a better pass-blocking line. Not sure how you measure pass-blocking… Our O-Line really hasn’t had a proper quarterback to protect in some time. I like our chances, given what our team has accomplished with the likes of Frerotte and Jackson. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Bubba Franks never had more than 450 receiving yards with or without Favre. He became a star because no other TE in the league was any good at catching passes. Point taken - Shiancoe is already better than Franks. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Harvin is a rookie, and rookie receivers rarely make an impact. Moreover, the ones who do are rarely thes you expect. Sure, he could be DeSean Jackson- but he’s much more likely to be Ted Ginn. Think Reggie Bush. Sporadic flashes of speed and ability. The point here is that we just needed another _threat_ to take some of the attention off AP. He should vastly improve our return game as well. Better field position always helps. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brett-favre-to-the-vikings/495333/149 "2009-08-19T17:47:53Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > Agreed. Which is why I take what you’re saying as a burst of enthusiasm and nothing more. I’m sure that deep down, you know the Vikings required far more than a once-great QB to fulfill their Super Bowl dreams. So while no one can blame you for being in a good mood today, you’re realistic enough that you’re not going to put money down on something we all know isn’t going to happen. > > However, perhaps you could be enticed into something a bit less risky. Like, say, if someone were to lay down twenty bucks saying that the Vikes don’t make the playoffs…? I’ll take it. You do know the Vikings went 10-6 last year and won their division, do you not? You also know they have one of the league’s best defenses, and THE best running offense. They also drafted a hotshot, playmaking receiver to add to an already solid receiving corps and a very solid O-line. The one thing they really needed was a QB, and they just got one. I don’t know why you think they’ll do any _worse_ than last year, but I’ll be happy to take your $20.00. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brett-favre-to-the-vikings/495333/150 "2009-08-19T17:48:18Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > The Jets offense was something totally new to him and he learned it as best he could but it can take years to adjust to that style. The Vikings offensive style is what he knows and he even commented that he can run those plays in his sleep. The Vikings playbook was only running at 50% for Tavarus (based on ability) and 50% for Sage (based on knowledge). They are confident Favre can run the playbook at 100%. > It’s no secret he doesn’t like training camp but once the season starts he’s 100% dedicated time and effort wise. Good thing they don’t do anything important during camp, huh? It’s not like timing and precision teamwork – including things like a QB knowing which adjustment his _receiver_ is likely to make when they face a given defensive alignment – are essential in a West Coast scheme. And yes, I’m sure Favre knows the\* entire\* playbook, including all the terminology and every audible and option route. It’s not like Childress would have changed anything when he took it from Reid, nor Reid when he took it from Holmgren. Why, it’s only been a few years… it’s not like coaches are constantly tweaking their playbooks in an effort to keep things fresh. And of course, football isn’t an emotional game where disunity and lack of trust can make a difference in players’ performance. Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brett-favre-to-the-vikings/495333/151 "2009-08-19T17:51:49Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Harvin is a rookie, and rookie receivers rarely make an impact. Ever heard of Randy Moss? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brett-favre-to-the-vikings/495333/152 "2009-08-19T17:58:54Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Ever heard of Randy Moss? Rarely is not the same as never. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brett-favre-to-the-vikings/495333/153 "2009-08-19T18:04:39Z")
And hey, if people want to make a bet, I have one: Brett Favre’s QB rating this year will be lower than Tarvaris Jackson’s was last year. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brett-favre-to-the-vikings/495333/154 "2009-08-19T18:30:56Z")
> [@unwashed\_brain](#): > > #6 overall D last year, 4th in sacks, 4th in 3rd down percentage. All this and we get EJ Henderson back this year (missed 12 games in '08). All true, but also a rather less impressive 12th in points allowed. That’s the important one. > [@](#): > > Not sure how you measure pass-blocking… Obviously it’s not really something you can do objectively (although I’m sure [footballoutsiders.com](http://footballoutsiders.com) has a metric for it because they have one for everything else) but the Vikings’ line is made up of very large, not very mobile guys. Great for clearing rushing lanes, not great for pass protection. > [@](#): > > Point taken - Shiancoe is already better than Franks. He’s hardly a star, though. Certainly not among the top ten at the position. His penis is more famous than he is. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brett-favre-to-the-vikings/495333/155 "2009-08-19T18:37:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > All true, but also a rather less impressive 12th in points allowed. That’s the important one. Points allowed would have a lot to do with the field position your offense/special teams leaves you with, wouldn’t it? And the Vikings offence was pretty bad last season. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brett-favre-to-the-vikings/495333/156 "2009-08-19T18:42:09Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Points allowed would have a lot to do with the field position your offense/special teams leaves you with, wouldn’t it? And the Vikings offence was pretty bad last season. The Vikings offense was 17th overall last season- ahead of the Steelers and Titans and just .8 YPG behind Favre’s Jets. [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Ever heard of Randy Moss? [/QUOTE] Ever heard of Marcus Nash? ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brett-favre-to-the-vikings/495333/157 "2009-08-19T18:43:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > All true, but also a rather less impressive 12th in points allowed. That’s the important one. That number is inflated by their statistically anomalous 7 return TDs allowed last year. Not having to kick to Reggie Bush :smack: this year should help cut that number down. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > He’s hardly a star, though. Certainly not among the top ten at the position. We’ve gone full circle on this one - I originally said Favre would make him (Shiancoe) a star. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brett-favre-to-the-vikings/495333/158 "2009-08-19T18:44:31Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’ll take it. > > You do know the Vikings went 10-6 last year and won their division, do you not? You also know they have one of the league’s best defenses, and THE best running offense. They also drafted a hotshot, playmaking receiver to add to an already solid receiving corps and a very solid O-line. > > The one thing they really needed was a QB, and they just got one. I don’t know why you think they’ll do any _worse_ than last year, but I’ll be happy to take your $20.00. Excellent – glad to hear it. The only problem for me now is that I can’t root for the Vikes. I mean, I don’t go out of my way to root for them, but I regard them as the most rootable in the NFC North. Ah well. So, just to make this all official-like – $20 on whether or not the Vikings make the playoffs at the end of the 2009 season. I take “no”, you take “yes”. \ > [@furt](#): > > And hey, if people want to make a bet, I have one: Brett Favre’s QB rating this year will be lower than Tarvaris Jackson’s was last year. You won’t get me to take that one – that’s one of the reasons I made the original bet. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brett-favre-to-the-vikings/495333/159 "2009-08-19T18:46:04Z")
This acquisition is excellent news … for Packer fans. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brett-favre-to-the-vikings/495333/160 "2009-08-19T18:55:40Z")
Something that everyone else seems to have forgotten occurs to me- Favre sucks in a dome. What makes you guys think he’ll stop sucking in domes just because it’s his home field now? > [@unwashed\_brain](#): > > That number is inflated by their statistically anomalous 7 return TDs allowed last year. Not having to kick to Reggie Bush :smack: this year should help cut that number down. What you stop giving up in punt and kick return scores you’ll make up for in interception returns. Favre threw 22 of them last year (interceptions, that is, not INTs for touchdowns- I can’t find that information anywhere and I’m not about to go game-by-game.) > [@](#): > > We’ve gone full circle on this one - I originally said Favre would make him (Shiancoe) a star. Yes, but he won’t. Franks isn’t a star now and none of the other tight ends Favre has played with became stars either. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brett-favre-to-the-vikings/495333/161 "2009-08-19T19:17:07Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > You won’t get me to take that one – that’s one of the reasons I made the original bet. Understood, but I think your bet is a poor one, much to generous to the Favre Fans. I don’t think the Vikes will be any better, but they have a _very_ easy schedule this year. He could suck royally, but if the team makes it in at 9-7 behind Rosenfels, then gest trounced in the playoffs, you’d lose the bet even though you were essentially right in your prediction about Favre. Unwise, IMO. A smarter bet would be whether they go farther in the playoffs this year. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brett-favre-to-the-vikings/495333.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brett-favre-to-the-vikings/495333.md?page=9)