# Brexit and the Irish Border Conundrum **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2017, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-and-the-irish-border-conundrum/797185 "2017-09-24T16:25:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-and-the-irish-border-conundrum/797185/41 "2017-09-27T08:17:05Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Even if there is a UK-EU deal the UK has got to set up separate trade agreements with all these other countries as well. Suggestions have been made to simply more or less copy the EU deals with those countries. Can’t simply be snapped into existence though. Those countries have to formally agree them, ratify them, and enforce them. And there’s very little chance they’ll simply want the same deal, given that the current deals relate to trading with the whole of the EU, while a trade deal with the UK will concern itself with only the UK. There’ll be delays. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-and-the-irish-border-conundrum/797185/42 "2017-09-27T23:54:46Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > Original poster here. After doing some more reading, I think one option (while politically deeply unpalatable) is not entirely unworkable. > > Northern Ireland must remain in a de facto customs union with the EU. A customs border, with EU and UK personnel working together, needs to appear at airports and seaports for when people and goods cross the Irish Sea . . . > > Curious what other posters - especially those of you in the British Isles - think of this option. The main objection is that this is not a good idea from the point of view of Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland does far more trade with Great Britain than it does with the Republic of Ireland, so a sea border between NI and GB would be far more disruptive to NI trade and economy than a land border with the RoI. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-and-the-irish-border-conundrum/797185/43 "2017-10-01T18:27:50Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > IMO the US-Canada border is the cautionary tale, not the good example. It’s _much_ “harder” than it needs to be, and consequently the economies of both countries suffer, but domestic superstitions block the government of either country from doing the right thing and cutting the red tape. Right on. Used to be you needed only a driver’s licence. Now you need a passport or a special travel document. And stopping cars to ask questions is an enormous waste of time for everyone. Now I have gone (by ferry) from Denmark to Sweden and also to Norway and back without seeing a border guard ever. I have gone from Switzerland into France with only the most nominal inspection. So an EU/non-EU border can be as tight or as loose as the countries involved want it. I like the idea mentioned above of leaving it as it is and saying nothing about it. ---
**Author:** ![Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-and-the-irish-border-conundrum/797185/44 "2017-10-02T15:55:35Z")
No-one is really bothered about _people_ crossing the border. There doesn’t need to be, and hence won’t be, any restrictions on the movement of _people_ (unless and until third world migrants manage to get into Ireland and use this border to cross into the UK). What matters is the trade in _goods and services_. Now, the UK wants to leave its customs union with Ireland and the EU, but does not want any customs restrictions on its trade. That doesn’t work. If the UK leaves the customs union then the EU will be forced to set up customs posts on the Irish border - otherwise WTO rules would oblige it to unilaterally offer free trade to the whole world. And those customs restrictions will have to be strictly enforced. Which will greatly irk all those in Ireland (north and south) who do any sort of business across the border. And indeed anyone who has a non-trade reason to drive regularly across the border in a van. It will also greatly irk all those in Ireland who strongly object to any division of the island. Their reaction is unpredictable but unlikely to be entirely peaceful. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-and-the-irish-border-conundrum/797185/45 "2017-10-02T16:30:47Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Even if there is a UK-EU deal the UK has got to set up separate trade agreements with all these other countries as well. Suggestions have been made to simply more or less copy the EU deals with those countries. :D:rolleyes: Oh ye innocent lamb. One of the biggest stumbling blocks with FTA’s and such is Visas. Countries need to setup relatively easy/painless mechanism for each other’s citizens to travel. Being part of such a big block, the UK was able to get more or less unequal agreements on this issue. Pluckly little Britain on its own? Yeah not so much. The UK is currently scared shitless of brown people coming in. I can just imagine the negotiations. _Hey Mr Singh/Mubarak/Chen, really want a good free trade system with you, but we must have strong border controls, tough visa policies_. I can just imagine what the reaction would be. One suspects that they.did.not.think.this.through. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-and-the-irish-border-conundrum/797185/46 "2017-10-02T17:19:08Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > One suspects that they.did.not.think.this.through. Yathink? There are plenty of us who have run out of ways to say “WE TOLD YOU SO!” ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-and-the-irish-border-conundrum/797185/47 "2017-10-02T20:09:54Z")
And yet there’s people who think this sham of a referendum should be respected. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-and-the-irish-border-conundrum/797185/48 "2017-10-02T22:43:55Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > And yet there’s people who think this sham of a referendum should be respected. The referendum was no sham. We were asked a simple question. Both sides put forward their cases and we freely chose to leave the EU. Not liking the result is not a good reason for not respecting it. > [@AK84](#): > > One suspects that they.did.not.think.this.through. Actually, that was the genius of the Leave campaign. They knew there would be a huge fight afterwards so left everything in that regard vague, concentrating on problems. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-and-the-irish-border-conundrum/797185/49 "2017-10-02T22:53:59Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Actually, that was the genius of the Leave campaign. They knew there would be a huge fight afterwards so left everything in that regard vague, concentrating on problems. Yep, this is totally the n-th dimensional chess game that the top Leavers planned. ---
**Author:** ![gatorslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gatorslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gatorslap)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-and-the-irish-border-conundrum/797185/50 "2017-10-02T23:15:09Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > We were asked a simple question. It wasn’t a simple question, it was just worded that way. ---
**Author:** ![JacobSwan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@JacobSwan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JacobSwan)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-and-the-irish-border-conundrum/797185/51 "2017-10-03T10:08:00Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > :D:rolleyes: > The UK is currently scared shitless of brown people coming in. I can just imagine the negotiations. _Hey Mr Singh/Mubarak/Chen, really want a good free trade system with you, but we must have strong border controls, tough visa policies_. I can just imagine what the reaction would be. > > One suspects that they.did.not.think.this.through. Brown people and East Europeans. The ironic thing is that if we close our borders to EU nationals we will need to find people from somewhere else to pick fruit and run the NHS etc. The obvious place to look is the commonwealth and a lot of people from those countries have very dark suntans. Any racists that voted leave might be in for a shock. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-and-the-irish-border-conundrum/797185/52 "2017-10-03T10:19:23Z")
> [@gatorslap](#): > > It wasn’t a simple question, it was just worded that way. That response demonstrates the arrogance and contempt which were part of why Remain lost. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-and-the-irish-border-conundrum/797185/53 "2017-10-03T10:21:32Z")
> [@JacobSwan](#): > > The obvious place to look is the commonwealth and a lot of people from those countries have very dark suntans. Any racists that voted leave might be in for a shock. Indeed, and a lot of people pointed this out before the referendum. And yet they still called the Leave campaign racists. ---
**Author:** ![Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-and-the-irish-border-conundrum/797185/54 "2017-10-03T12:25:54Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > That response demonstrates the arrogance and contempt which were part of why Remain lost. Maybe so. But with the country today facing many horrendously difficult choices with expected outcomes ranging all the way from bad to very bad, I doubt many Remainers regret their votes, nor will they accept responsibility for the consequences of the Leavers’ votes. They broke it, they own it. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-and-the-irish-border-conundrum/797185/55 "2017-10-03T13:28:03Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > That response demonstrates the arrogance and contempt which were part of why Remain lost. That kneejerk response demonstrates the lack of due consideration the Leavers gave to the referendum which is why the Brexit process is such a fucking disaster. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-and-the-irish-border-conundrum/797185/56 "2017-10-03T13:31:19Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Indeed, and a lot of people pointed this out before the referendum. And yet they still called the Leave campaign racists. That might have had something to do with all the racism and other general xenophobia. Let’s pause to remember Nigel Farage’s assertion that if Britain remained in the EU there would be gangs of foreign rapists roaming the streets of our neighbourhoods. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-and-the-irish-border-conundrum/797185/57 "2017-10-03T14:08:32Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > That might have had something to do with all the racism and other general xenophobia. Nice try. People like you equated wanting control of immigration with racism. And people saw through that. I’m disappointed to see that you still equate the two. But it doesn’t matter. The referendum took place and for good or ill the decision has been made. Either you respect democracy or you do not. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-and-the-irish-border-conundrum/797185/58 "2017-10-03T14:25:25Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > The referendum took place and for good or ill the decision has been made. Either you respect democracy or you do not. I sort of agree that once the decision was made to hold a binding referendum requiring just a simple majority that the results should be respected. However, I think that such a weighty decision should have required a supermajority, not a margin that could have swung either way depending on the weather and the latest sound bites. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-and-the-irish-border-conundrum/797185/59 "2017-10-03T14:41:17Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > That kneejerk response demonstrates the lack of due consideration the Leavers gave to the referendum which is why the Brexit process is such a fucking disaster. Kneejerk eleven hours later? As for being a disaster, I don’t disagree but only time will tell. > [@Ludovic](#): > > However, I think that such a weighty decision should have required a supermajority, Indeed but we’re way-off topic. Back to the OP. I don’t think there will be a problem. It’s really a non-issue bigged up to cause trouble. There are land borders elsewhere in the world which operate without too much trouble. The EU has land borders with non-EU non-EFTA countries like Russia and Turkey, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![gatorslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gatorslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gatorslap)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-and-the-irish-border-conundrum/797185/60 "2017-10-03T17:40:23Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > That response demonstrates the arrogance and contempt which were part of why Remain lost. And your response demonstrates that Leave didn’t win on the merits. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-and-the-irish-border-conundrum/797185.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-and-the-irish-border-conundrum/797185.md?page=4)