# \#Brexit - whose next, whats next? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 24, 2016, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-whose-next-whats-next/758207 "2016-06-24T04:46:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-whose-next-whats-next/758207/41 "2016-06-24T14:47:53Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > - From what I have read, the “remain” side tended to be associated with a younger and more educated demographic, the “leave” side with low-information right-wing xenophobes. This is the sort of passive-aggressive demagoguery that drives the undecided into the arms of your opposition. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-whose-next-whats-next/758207/42 "2016-06-24T15:02:48Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Speaking as a citizen of another country, I’d be very skeptical of my government negotiating a trade deal with the United Kingdom, inasmuch as the country has demonstrated a willingness to renege on its trade deals and appears to be in an alarming amount of resulting political turmoil. Best of luck dealing with other countries, I guess. > > T.M.'s post perfectly encapsulates the “leave” vote: he is literally saying the UK should get to keep everything good about the EU, but give nothing in return. It’s ludicrous. Why would anyone trust a country that takes that position? And speaking of reneged treaties, pot calling the kettle black-arse or what? Not to dwell on all the reneged treaties the US made with Indian nations, let’s take a [more recent example.](http://pnatuna.com/node/314) > [@](#): > > US seeks to renege on 2016 agreement > > Bali, Indonesia 1 December 2015: The United States is seeking to renege on an agreement it signed with the 17 member Pacific Island Forum Fisheries Agency (FFA) member states, admitting it now cannot afford to pay the full US$89.2m deal it signed in Brisbane with Pacific Island nations. Why would anyone trust a country that reneges on its treaties? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-whose-next-whats-next/758207/43 "2016-06-24T16:13:50Z")
I’m not very trusting of the USA, either. > [@](#): > > And people have written Britain off before. We’re still here. Sure, and Greece is still there, too. So is Venezuela, to use an extreme example. The UK will still be there, it’ll just be poorer. Well, it might not be the UK - since now Scotland will see a new push for independence - but, yeah, it’ll still be there, and poorer. Xenophobia and isolationism don’t do anyone any favours. ---
**Author:** ![Sampsiceramos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Sampsiceramos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampsiceramos)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-whose-next-whats-next/758207/44 "2016-06-24T16:22:17Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > This is the sort of passive-aggressive demagoguery that drives the undecided into the arms of your opposition. Is it demagoguery to state the truth? I can see how you’d object to blanket accusations of xenophobia, but the fact of the matter is that the Leave vote was overwhelmingly championed by the older and less-educated demographics, and the Leave campaign was one long scaremongering treatise on Schrödinger’s Immigrants\*. \*Schrödinger’s Immigrants denoting the mythical immigrants who are too lazy to work and busy freeloading whilst simultaneously “stealing jobs”. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-whose-next-whats-next/758207/45 "2016-06-24T20:22:52Z")
Not only that, but I get the impression anecdotally that there weren’t that many undecideds to drive one way or the other. A Canadian who is over there and as a resident and a Commonwealth citizen is eligible to vote was saying recently that he has never seen an election or any kind of referendum anywhere where total strangers were asking each other how they were going to vote, and everybody seemed to have a strong opinion on it. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-whose-next-whats-next/758207/46 "2016-06-24T20:50:50Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > My Brit friends living in Scotland seem all but certain that Scotland will leave if Britain leaves the union. > > I think Denmark might be one of the next. I bet it will be the Czech Republic. 62% of their population currently tell pollsters they would vote to leave, and they’ve been threateneing to leave if England does (the EU is even more unpopular there). ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-whose-next-whats-next/758207/47 "2016-06-24T21:18:44Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > - From what I have read, the “remain” side tended to be associated with a younger and more educated demographic… The other way to look at the age divide is that the people old enough to actually remember the pre-Maastricht or even pre-EEC Britain found those days preferable. > [@RickJay](#): > > Speaking as a citizen of another country, I’d be very skeptical of my government negotiating a trade deal with the United Kingdom, inasmuch as the country has demonstrated a willingness to renege on its trade deals and appears to be in an alarming amount of resulting political turmoil. Best of luck dealing with other countries, I guess. “Renege” suggests some sort of violation or default. The UK is simply exiting, according to the mechanism provided by the treaty itself. This happens from time to time; the US exited the ABM treaty, and Canada exited from Kyoto, but I don’t think it’s fair to say that they were reneging on commitments. Other countries will continue to do business or not with Britain for the same reasons as always; whether there is stuff to be bought or sold. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-whose-next-whats-next/758207/48 "2016-06-25T00:49:57Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > How is it a true picture ? The United Kingdom is united. It’s right there in the name. You don’t get to remove the chunks who don’t vote “right” when they’re inconvenient. > > \*\*Um, are you high ? You leave, you get to keep sweet Fanny Adams from the EU. That’s what leaving _means_. > \*\* > > As for the OP, my guess is that other EU members are going to keep a keen watch on the state of the UK before anything else happens. Personally I hope it crashes and burns as a warning to the others, but then again I’m French and thus hoping the worst for the Brits is quasi compulsory 😛 Some of the laws that the EU has given us are a benefit to the ordinary man in the street workers rights for instance, why throw them away. A French poll found that the French people would also like a referendum, there are also calls from the people of Germany and Austria for a referendum. I think that we are starting to see the break up of the EU, in 5-7 years I think that we will see the re-emergence of the Common Market between the countries of Northern Europe ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-whose-next-whats-next/758207/49 "2016-06-25T01:06:13Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > How is it a true picture ?\*\* The United Kingdom is united. It’s right there in the name. You don’t get to remove the chunks who don’t vote “right” when they’re inconvenient. > \*\* > Um, are you high ? You leave, you get to keep sweet Fanny Adams from the EU. That’s what leaving _means_. > As for the OP, my guess is that other EU members are going to keep a keen watch on the state of the UK before anything else happens. Personally I hope it crashes and burns as a warning to the others, but then again I’m French and thus hoping the worst for the Brits is quasi compulsory 😛 The true name is The United Kingdom’s 4 separate nations each with their own customs, history and assemblies, Scotland also has its own legal system. We are not one country but 4. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-whose-next-whats-next/758207/50 "2016-06-25T01:15:29Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > My Brit friends living in Scotland seem all but certain that Scotland will leave if Britain leaves the union. > > I think Denmark might be one of the next. I have read stuff that suggests this as well. Some of it then also suggests that the EU may decide to come down like a ton of bricks and seek to penalize the UK to dissuade any others from leaving. Far too soon to tell but there is some sense to that. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-whose-next-whats-next/758207/51 "2016-06-25T01:28:53Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > The true name is The United Kingdom’s 4 separate nations each with their own customs, history and assemblies, Scotland also has its own legal system. I can see why you shorten it to just “UK.” UK4SNEWTOCHAASAHIOLS is pretty unwieldy for a name. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-whose-next-whats-next/758207/52 "2016-06-25T01:35:43Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I haven’t been following this issue closely, in part because I suppose I just assumed that the “remain” side would prevail and the whole thing would blow over as just a non-event. But as an outsider looking in, the above seems like an excellent analysis, the principal part being the extent to which right-wing nativist xenophobia drove the outcome. The following seem like noteworthy facts: > > - World leaders generally supported the “remain” side; these included President Obama, Prime Minister Cameron who staked his political career on it, the Prime Minister of Canada, German chancellor Angela Merkel, and French president Francois Hollande. Donald Trump thinks the “leave” vote is terrific, which pretty much seals the deal on how stupid it is. > \*\* > > - From what I have read, the “remain” side tended to be associated with a younger and more educated demographic, the “leave” side with low-information right-wing xenophobes. > \*\* > > - Following the vote, the British pound plunged to a 30-year low. The Bank of England is struggling to stabilize the currency. > > - The vote has raised the Scottish independence question again, and another referendum is now possible, threatening the integrity of the UK itself. > > - Years of trade negotiations and economic uncertainty lie ahead. You are partly correct the young did in the main vote for remain, the other part of that group were academics (teachers/lecturers). The leave side you are so wrong about them it is unbelievable. In my town 74% turned out to vote 28,000 voted leave are you saying that they are poorly informed right-wing xenophobes many of them members of the professions, older people with life long experience to help them form a intelligent opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-whose-next-whats-next/758207/53 "2016-06-25T02:56:14Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Did you miss the part where the Irish PM said Bexit would mean the Irish imposing border controls. I didn’t see that, but it’s not relevant to what I was saying either. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-whose-next-whats-next/758207/54 "2016-06-25T03:13:55Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > are you saying that they are poorly informed right-wing xenophobes many of them members of the professions, older people with life long experience to help them form a intelligent opinion. Yes, I’m saying that. They were poorly informed and manipulated by fear and an emotional reaction to the current refugee crisis in Europe. Meanwhile a petition calling for a second referendum has become the fastest ever to get 100,000 signatures and so must now be debated by parliament. > **[Second EU referendum will be considered for parliament debate as petition...](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/second-eu-referendum-petition-will-be-considered-for-parliament-debate-as-signatures-hit-100-000-a7100721.html)** > > The government will be issuing a response Edit: here’s the petition, earlier it was getting so many hits that the governments web server was crashing, it’s now at 500,000 and rising rapidly: > **[Archived Petition: EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum](https://petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions/131215)** > > We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-whose-next-whats-next/758207/55 "2016-06-25T09:15:11Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Yes, I’m saying that. They were poorly informed and manipulated by fear and an emotional reaction to the current refugee crisis in Europe. Meanwhile a petition calling for a second referendum has become the fastest ever to get 100,000 signatures and so must now be debated by parliament. > [Second EU referendum petition will be considered for parliament debate as signatures hit 100,000 | The Independent | The Independent](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/second-eu-referendum-petition-will-be-considered-for-parliament-debate-as-signatures-hit-100000-a7100721.html) > > Edit: here’s the petition, earlier it was getting so many hits that the governments web server was crashing, it’s now at 500,000 and rising rapidly: > [EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum - Petitions](https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215) Quoting the Independent is the same as quoting the champagne socialist bible, it is a newspaper that very rarely lives up to its name, to get a balance you need to quote the Daily Mail along side. The referendum is the first democratic election that has been called upon our membership of the EU. The original referendum 40 years ago was for a common market agreement not what is rapidly becoming the Federated States of Europe, one of the main complaints is the gradual erosion of the UK’s sovereignty. You are failing to mention that the so called rabid right wanted a third way, a return to the original common market that we first voted for, Camoron denied us this opportunity and only allowed us a in out vote. Camorons so called agreement with the EU was just words that the EU had no intention of standing by as they said that they did not intend to ratify the agreement until after the referendum of that there was little chance. The great majority of the so called refugees in main land Europe are not refugee’s they are economic migrants who have been tricked by people smugglers into believing that the UK is the land of milk and honey which it is not. Most of the people I have spoken to would like to see immigration cut to 50,000 pa with genuine refugee’s from the Syrian camps given priority. 300,000 + pa is unsustainable. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-whose-next-whats-next/758207/56 "2016-06-25T09:22:52Z")
Reform of the EU is certainly something which should happen. Meanwhile the petition on UK parliament that I cited has gone from 500,000 to 900,000 signatures in four hours. Here’s the cite which you can’t argue with. > **[Archived Petition: EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum](https://petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions/131215)** > > We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum. This referendum is not legally binding, parliament will decide and the political landscape will change a lot in the next two years. Hint, the UK will not leave the EU. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-whose-next-whats-next/758207/57 "2016-06-25T10:02:43Z")
One of the more far-fetched scenarios that’s being discussed is “London as Singapore” i.e. it breaks off from the rest of Britain and re-joins the EU. Far-fetched, but in 10-15 years who knows? There will likely be a Scottish referendum in the next few years and while low oil prices may worry Scots I would guess that there is at least a decent chance of them leaving the UK. There is also a possibility of Northern Ireland voting to join Ireland. If either happens, the range of possibility of will expand and Londoners may well wonder if they are really better off shacked to the rest of England. Interesting times… ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-whose-next-whats-next/758207/58 "2016-06-25T12:47:26Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > One of the more far-fetched scenarios that’s being discussed is “London as Singapore” i.e. it breaks off from the rest of Britain and re-joins the EU. Far-fetched, but in 10-15 years who knows? There will likely be a Scottish referendum in the next few years and while low oil prices may worry Scots I would guess that there is at least a decent chance of them leaving the UK. There is also a possibility of Northern Ireland voting to join Ireland. If either happens, the range of possibility of will expand and Londoners may well wonder if they are really better off shacked to the rest of England. Interesting times… It must be remembered that over a million Scots voted to leave the EU so it should not be taken for granted that Scotland will automatically vote to leave the union. The Irish issue is about the border between north and south Ireland, politicians say that this can be easily solved ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-whose-next-whats-next/758207/59 "2016-06-25T13:20:14Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Reform of the EU is certainly something which should happen. Meanwhile the petition on UK parliament that I cited has gone from 500,000 to 900,000 signatures in four hours. Here’s the cite which you can’t argue with. > [EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum - Petitions](https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215) > > This referendum is not legally binding, parliament will decide and the political landscape will change a lot in the next two years. Hint, the UK will not leave the EU. I think there are decent odds on that. The drop in the pound and the markets, the realization that this will impact the financial sector in London, throwing thousands out of work (douchey finance people - if you think U.S. finance people are douchey, they just get doucheier with the accent 🙂 - but also IT people, administrative staff, custodians (Finance is HUGE in London). The realization that the pro-Brexit camp made a lot of empty promises, the possible loss of Scotland and Northern Ireland, and - on the other end - the wake up call to the EU that things have to change. ---
**Author:** ![Yersenia\_Pestis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e495f1/32.png) [@Yersenia\_Pestis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yersenia_Pestis)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-whose-next-whats-next/758207/60 "2016-06-25T13:30:21Z")
How of this vote was about raw fear of mass immigration (ie Syrian refugees)? Is this good for Russia? A divided Europe = weaker Europe and doesn’t that give the Russians more freedom to do reckless things like invade Ukraine/baltics? Here’s a conspiracy theory: the Russians want mass refugee crisis from Middle East (bonus points: they are scary Muslims!) into Europe to destroy its unity… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-whose-next-whats-next/758207.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brexit-whose-next-whats-next/758207.md?page=4)