# Bri1600BV Has Shown Me The Light! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 18, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898 "2009-08-18T23:43:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/201 "2009-08-24T01:53:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Why don’t you wish for flying ponies while you are at it? We have better healthcare here because money is spent to make it that way. Cheaper healthcare means clinics without on site labs, no MRI/EEGS/EKGs and only subsidized drugs. **It means research into finding cures for the various cancers stops.** Is that what you really want? Do you realise how stupid this makes you sound? Do you believe that countries with a UHS don’t have such gadgetry as labs and MRI’s? Do you think that the government funds research into cancer cures? Do you not understand that it is private pharmaceutical companies who undertake the vast bulk of any such research and that it will continue regarless of which health system the US finally adopts? Seriously, take your blinkers off and pull your goddamned fingers out of your ears and do some basic research into your ignorant claims. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/202 "2009-08-24T01:54:21Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > **Carol** , > Someone with no experience online, or even with computers at all is not going to be able to figure it out on their own, and helping them is what librarians and mommy and daddy are for. Mommy and daddy yes, government no. ---
**Author:** ![StaudtCJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@StaudtCJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StaudtCJ)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/203 "2009-08-24T02:22:44Z")
Wait, so they can’t use librarians or public libraries because the government pays for those? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/204 "2009-08-24T02:32:07Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I am now living off of what I worked for and earned all those years. As has beem explained to you lo these many times, you are living off a supplemental program of a New Deal welfare profram, one funded for most of its existence by a dedicated payroll tax. Your SSA payments were not an investment, they were a tax. And that you’ve become physically unemployable and entitled to payments from that program, well, that’s life. What is extremely hypocritical of you is sitting there claiming that you’re entitled to it because you paid taxes, while nobody else, including **Broomstick** who is arguably drawing benefits for which she paid taxes during her middle-class years, “deserves” anything but your scorn, while claiming that you yourself are “entitled” from having worked. Especially since Orange County is, or has been, a net consumer, not a net producer, of public funds – your freeways were paid for with my Federal income tax while I lived in New York and North Carolina (and waited our turn for money for our roads). Everything from emergency services training to water supply is paid for by other Californians, sometimes with Federal grants supplementing them. You’re like the hippie heading off into the wilderness with Thoreau’s axe – “what’s yours is ours, but what’s mine is mine” seems to be your creed. If you want to adopt a morally consistent stance that some people are not entitled to help for whatever reason, I’m willing to listen. But to act like a three-year-old who believes she can play with her sister’s toys but nobody better touch her own, is not a valid poisition to hold. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/205 "2009-08-24T02:33:41Z")
> [@StaudtCJ](#): > > Wait, so they can’t use librarians or public libraries because the government pays for those? Public schools, too. Gubment pays for those. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/206 "2009-08-24T02:48:55Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > **Carol** , . . . [sigh] Y’know, I kind of like you - don’t know why, but for some reason I have a soft spot for you - but this is just ludicrous. People have to learn. > > Someone with no experience online, or even with computers at all is not going to be able to figure it out on their own, and helping them is what librarians and mommy and daddy are for. Even someone who is smart is going to have trouble the first time they hit an online application. Or your elderly applicants – who’ve never used the internet before. After all, you DO see a lot of elderly people working at Wal-Mart. My grandmother, while she doesn’t work, she’s never used a computer before in her life. If she were to go to the library, she’d certainly need help. And she’s certainly not stupid! Oh, and she’s also on social security – but unlike our friend **curlcoat** here, she’s never worked. (She never even finished high school) Would you say she’s a leech on society? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/207 "2009-08-24T02:54:58Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Oh, and she’s also on social security – but unlike our friend **curlcoat** here, she’s never worked. (She never even finished high school) Would you say she’s a leech on society? Yes, I would. Of course, that goes a long way to explain YOUR malfunction. You’ve been raised to think that sponging is A-OK. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/208 "2009-08-24T03:04:52Z")
So what do you believe should be done with people like **Guin** ’s grandmother? There are three options, only two of which might be available. Force them to live with family, kill them, or support them. There are a lot of elderly people, many of them widows who never worked outside of the home a day in their lives, who do not have any family to turn to. So if a person falls into that category, he or she must be killed or supported. Which do you want to do? Continue to pay taxes, some of which go to these people? Or do you want them killed. And if you want them killed, who will do it? You? Or do you want Big Government to do the dirty work for you? And if you want the government to do it, will you object to paying taxes for it? ---
**Author:** ![LeeshaJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LeeshaJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeeshaJoy)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/209 "2009-08-24T03:10:06Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Yes, I would. Of course, that goes a long way to explain YOUR malfunction. You’ve been raised to think that sponging is A-OK. Odds are her grandmother never worked before because _she was a stay-at-home wife and mother._ ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/210 "2009-08-24T03:12:44Z")
The whole “I’m a woman, and I let the menfolk take care of me” schtick pretty much expired in the 1970’s. Which is almost forty years ago. What’s her problem? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/211 "2009-08-24T03:19:48Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > The whole “I’m a woman, and I let the menfolk take care of me” schtick pretty much expired in the 1970’s. Which is almost forty years ago. What’s her problem? Along with civility in public discouirse, right? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/212 "2009-08-24T03:22:26Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Along with civility in public discouirse, right? Civility, in the Pit? ---
**Author:** ![StaudtCJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@StaudtCJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StaudtCJ)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/213 "2009-08-24T03:31:50Z")
What’s wrong with a person, male or female, who is part of a two-party unit, choosing to put a priority on raising the products of that two-party unit full time? Instead of pawning the crotchfruit off on random minimum-wage or slightly higher individuals? Why is being a stay-at-home parent a bad thing? The person is taking on a 24-hour, no pay, no vacation job with no financial enhancement whatsoever for the sole reason of attempting to ensure society continues. How horrible, right? That person should get a job? They HAVE one. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/214 "2009-08-24T03:47:16Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Civility, in the Pit? > [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Saying that she’s “sponging” off her husband is stupid, and needlessly mean. Spouses, and families in general, take care of their own. Her household income is whatever it is, but whether it’s derived 50/50, 80/20, or 100/0, she’s not “sponging” anything. It’s also none of your goddamned business. Anyone see an inconsistency here? It’s stupid and needlessly mean to insult someone Carol Stream agrees with, but civility goes out the window if she’s insulting someone she disagrees with. Also, what Guin and her grandmother do is totally Carol’s business, but what curlcoat does isn’t anyone’s goddamn business. Hmm. > [@Carol Stream](#): > > ``` > The whole "I'm a woman, and I let the menfolk take care of me" schtick pretty much expired in the 1970's. Which is almost forty years ago. What's her problem? > > ``` She’s probably collecting her dead husband’s Social Security, which any spouse is entitled to. Criticizing her choices, when her husband chose to support her in life, and his SS benefits continue to support her after his death, is needlessly mean and stupid, and also none of your goddamn business. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/215 "2009-08-24T03:50:07Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Yes, I would. Of course, that goes a long way to explain YOUR malfunction. You’ve been raised to think that sponging is A-OK. > [@LeeshaJoy](#): > > Odds are her grandmother never worked before because _she was a stay-at-home wife and mother._ > [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > The whole “I’m a woman, and I let the menfolk take care of me” schtick pretty much expired in the 1970’s. Which is almost forty years ago. What’s her problem? She’s 90 years old. She’s been taking care of herself since my grandfather died, oh, about twenty-some years ago. (And she still lives by herself). Even before he died and he got sick, SHE took care of HIM. She still lives by herself in the house my mother grew up in, and she still cooks for herself, mostly. (We come by and help her out alot, as does my aunt). Back when SHE was raised, that’s what women did. But just because she never worked outside the house didn’t mean she was a weak “let the menfolk take care of me” type. (You have no IDEA how many times we have to yell at her not to exert herself and stop standing on chairs and painting the porch roof, and things like that) But she, like MOST elderly individuals, COLLECT SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE. Leech my ass. (BTW, if you think I’m anything like her, then I’ll be damned proud) Tell me, what did YOUR grandmother do, **Carol**? Or is she nastier than discarded tampon – much like her granddaughter? **Carol** , try showing civility _outside_ the Pit, and maybe people wouldn’t comment. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/216 "2009-08-24T04:10:13Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > She’s 90 years old. She’s been taking care of herself since my grandfather died, oh, about twenty-some years ago. No, she’s not taking care of herself, we are. > [@](#): > > Leech my ass. No one wants to have anything to do with your ass, period. > [@](#): > > Tell me, what did YOUR grandmother do, **Carol**? Or is she nastier than discarded tampon – much like her granddaughter? My Grandmothers died. Does that make you happy? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/217 "2009-08-24T04:10:47Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Civility, in the Pit? [Absolutely.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7867950&postcount=108) I’ll note that you don’t seem to object being on the receiving end of civility, and leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![LeeshaJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LeeshaJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeeshaJoy)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/218 "2009-08-24T04:15:08Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > My Grandmothers died. Does that make you happy? Clearly they must have done **something** before dying, or you wouldn’t be here. What did they do? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/219 "2009-08-24T04:18:03Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > [Absolutely.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7867950&postcount=108) > > I’ll note that you don’t seem to object being on the receiving end of civility, and leave it at that. Thanks for being civil in 2006. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/220 "2009-08-24T04:18:13Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > No, she’s not taking care of herself, we are. > > No one wants to have anything to do with your ass, period. > > My Grandmothers died. Does that make you happy? No, because I’m not a hateful humorless being like you. I’m sorry about your grandmothers. What did they do? What were their careers? (My other grandmother was a nurse’s aid) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898.md?page=12)