# Bri1600BV Has Shown Me The Light! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 18, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898 "2009-08-18T23:43:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/241 "2009-08-25T02:38:40Z")
I’ll give a nickel to each poster who puts carol and curol on ignore. It worked for Liberal! ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/242 "2009-08-25T02:56:57Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Dunno bout that. You defend your disability by stating that you’ve worked and paid taxes for 30+ years, and you’re loathe to define what makes it okay for a person to accept welfare preferring to make it sound as if they are all layabout cheats who do nothing but sponge. Why don’t you clarify then and tell us exactly what, where, why, and when it’s okay for a person to take government assistance. I mean, we all know it’s okay for you to take it. What similarities to you does a person need? I’m not “defending” anything because I have nothing I have to defend. Also, there is simply no comparison between SSI and welfare, no matter how many times you all try to pretend there is. Anyway… It is never “okay” for someone to take welfare, as it should be something that one does as a last resort, and gets off of as soon as possible. It is supposed to be a safety net, not a lifestyle choice, so people should quit with the excuses as to why they can’t work/get an education or whatever the reason is they cannot do anything but take assistance. > [@](#): > > Now I seem to remember that you stopped working because the amount you would have made would have been less than the family paid in taxes. No, I stopped working because I finally got to the point that simply couldn’t hold a full time job and there is no part time work that I can do. It was afterwards that we confirmed what we had suspected, that it is actually slightly cheaper for me to not work. > [@kambuckta](#): > > Do you realise how stupid this makes you sound? Do you believe that countries with a UHS don’t have such gadgetry as labs and MRI’s? Do you think that the government funds research into cancer cures? Do you not understand that it is private pharmaceutical companies who undertake the vast bulk of any such research and that it will continue regarless of which health system the US finally adopts? How about you read what that was a response to before you show how stupid you sound? **Brown Eyed Girl** said “I want affordable health care for every U.S. citizen. I want better healthcare outcomes for less money” , and that was my response. It had nothing to do with a UHC. Also, you could do your own research and figure out just how much medical research countries with UHCs do. WRT to those drug companies - do you think they will continue to bother with research if they cannot get the money back in sales? They already don’t bother with drugs for things that won’t pay well. > [@amanset](#): > > After she said no last time, maybe I can enquire as to if she has got any closer to working out how much she has paid in and how much she has got out, thus working out if she is currently a net payer or a net receiver? Gonna say no again to that strawman this time too. I know that I am certainly not yet a net receiver since I’ve hardly had much yet but that’s all I’m going to bother with. > [@](#): > > Oh and if she will commit to promise to stop taking out her social security once her amount taken out reaches the amount paid in (including any adjustments for inflation)? Why should I do that? Will you? > [@](#): > > If not, she’s clearly sponging off the government as she doesn’t care if she takes out more than she’s “owed”. Snort. Nice try. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/243 "2009-08-25T03:03:31Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > It is never “okay” for someone to take welfare, as it should be something that one does as a last resort, and gets off of as soon as possible. It is supposed to be a safety net, not a lifestyle choice, so people should quit with the excuses as to why they can’t work/get an education or whatever the reason is they cannot do anything but take assistance. Ah! An answer! I’ve heard of these. Very important to starting discussions as I understand it. I shall proceed from here. Do you think that everyone one welfare is treating it as a lifestyle choice? Majority? What’s your opinion? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/244 "2009-08-25T03:06:44Z")
> [@LeeshaJoy](#): > > Refresh my memory… you’re _against_ universal health care, right? :dubious: Yes. I’d kind of like to be able to keep my retirement instead of it going to more taxes. > [@Broomstick](#): > > I’m not sure what you’re getting at here - This is part of your problem - I am not “getting at” anything, I am simply asking a question. Insurance and vehicle maintenance - particularly older vehicle - are expensive, but you jump right past the obvious and go on a rant about selling your tools. You then go on to state that your husband uses one of the vehicles as well, which is far different from what you said earlier - that you use both for work. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/245 "2009-08-25T03:14:22Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > You then go on to state that your husband uses one of the vehicles as well, which is far different from what you said earlier - that you use both for work. You quoted: > [@curlcoat](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Well, THIS poverty stricken household has one old car and one old pickup truck, both paid for, and both of which help bring money into the household **in addition to being one vehicle per driver.** Selling them would seriously impact my ability to make money so that would be utterly foolish. You quoted it. Did you read it? Please try to keep up. ---
**Author:** ![torie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@torie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torie)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/246 "2009-08-25T03:50:21Z")
I thought this thread was about Bri1600BV troll. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/247 "2009-08-25T04:01:38Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Exactly. **Carol Stream** scoffed at the idea of civility in the pit… after demanding it (and in reaction to something as mild as accusing \*\*curlcoat \*\*of sponging off her husband). :smack: Long night at work. I _knew_ she was being inconsistent, but my brain was only picking up “ **Carol Stream** berated”. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/248 "2009-08-25T04:58:23Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Ah! An answer! I’ve heard of these. Very important to starting discussions as I understand it. I shall proceed from here. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Do you think that everyone one welfare is treating it as a lifestyle choice? Majority? What’s your opinion? My opinion? Here in California, probably 20% ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/249 "2009-08-25T08:44:53Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > This is part of your problem - I am not “getting at” anything, I am simply asking a question. Insurance and vehicle maintenance - particularly older vehicle - are expensive, but you jump right past the obvious and go on a rant about selling your tools. Um… what? As the vehicles have been well cared for and we keep up with their routine maintenance (mostly oil changes, though the truck needed some stuff replaced a couple years ago) they are actually LOW maintenance, no more than _new_ vehicles, actually. Our insurance costs have actually gone _down_ over the years, due in part to excellent driving records but also because we are careful not to buy more insurance than we need. As our state bases vehicle taxes on the worth the vehicle, the older the vehicle the less it’s worth and the less you pay in taxes on it. And what you don’t seem to get is that the vehicles, like my work tools, ARE actually tools. They are _assets_, not liabilities, and their presence results in income that very much exceeds their costs. Just like my work tools. Just like my cell phone, which has been an integral and essential part of some of my recent employment. Not one of those things is a _luxury_, they are devices whereby I make the money which will take us back into the middle class. > [@](#): > > You then go on to state that your husband uses one of the vehicles as well, which is far different from what you said earlier - that you use both for work. Yes, I use both for work. He also drives them both. Why is this a cognitive problem for you? I can obviously only drive one vehicle at a time, he clearly takes the other if there is a need for him to go anywhere. We also have a handicap placard for both, as that maximizes the utility of them both in that my husband can use either without worrying whether or not there is a placard in them. I don’t see why you have a problem with the notion that a vehicle can serve multiple purposes. You bitch that people are receiving assistance (even as you yourself are) yet you also insist they should sell/get rid of _the very things that make them more employable and enable them to get off the “dole”._ ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/250 "2009-08-25T11:24:34Z")
I speak from experience to say that folks who make welfare their ‘lifestyle choice’ are people who have no choices in life at all…it’s welfare or nothing. So, it’s not a lifestyle choice at all, really. Choices are made when one has alternative options available from which to _choose._ Many in our communities, whether through ill health or disability, through relationship breakdown or redundancy in the workplace find themselves with no other ‘choice’ but to adopt a welfare ‘lifestyle’. And having been there, I can tell you that life is MUCH better when you are not living on a subsistence-level income. And if one has real choices, they don’t actually choose to scrounge out an existence on welfare. Just sayin’. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/251 "2009-08-25T14:45:30Z")
Don’t bother to give \*\*curlcoat \*\*any statistics about how long people are on welfare, guys. She’s just going to ignore them because they disagree with the Magical World of curlcoat, where everybody on welfare dines nightly on caviar and champagne, popping out babies with expensive birth defects as they scoff at the fools who actually work for a living. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/252 "2009-08-25T15:25:42Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Yes, I know tho I thought they had changed that law? I know they were talking about doing so. I know this was multiple pages back, but what law exactly do you mean? The law about becoming a naturalized citizen or the law about being a citizen if born here. Because neither path to citizenship has been abolished thank God. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/253 "2009-08-25T15:32:13Z")
> [@villa](#): > > I know this was multiple pages back, but what law exactly do you mean? The law about becoming a naturalized citizen or the law about being a citizen if born here. Because neither path to citizenship has been abolished thank God. I believe her claim was that children who are illegal aliens are legally allowed to attend public schools. (I don’t know if they are or aren’t.) ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/254 "2009-08-25T15:36:02Z")
That didn’t seem to make sense given her post. But of course, with the source material, expecting sense is a bit out there. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/255 "2009-08-25T15:36:47Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > :rolleyes: > > My opinion? Here in California, probably 20% Got any cites to back that up? (Psst – opinions don’t count if you’re making claims like that, dearie) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/256 "2009-08-25T15:37:13Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I believe her claim was that children who are illegal aliens are legally allowed to attend public schools. (I don’t know if they are or aren’t.) Does it matter if they are? It’s not like they personally choose to come to America, it was their parents. Regardless your position on the kid’s parents, crippling kid’s futures with lack of education is just cruel. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/257 "2009-08-25T15:43:30Z")
> [@villa](#): > > That didn’t seem to make sense given her post. But of course, with the source material, expecting sense is a bit out there. I didn’t read the post in question when I posted. Here it is: > [@curlcoat](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > You do realize that some of those ESL students are naturalized citizens (Mexican immigrants do actually manage to stay in the country legally) and some of them are natural citizens (having been born in the U.S.; check your Constitution, dear). > > Yes, I know tho I thought they had changed that law? I know they were talking about doing so. It looks like I was remembering incorrectly. With the quote she’s quoting, it looks like she thought that the Constitution (‘law’, as she puts it) had been changed such that children born in the U.S. to illegal aliens are not citizens. I have not hear that the 14th Amendment had been repealed. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/258 "2009-08-25T15:48:22Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Good for you. Hopefully, you will not end up with some huge expense that your squirreled away money won’t cover, and so become one of those poor people you think cannot live without your SS funds. So, events beyond your control are only your fault if… I can’t even come up with your logic here. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/259 "2009-08-25T15:56:02Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > It looks like I was remembering incorrectly. With the quote she’s quoting, it looks like she thought that the Constitution (‘law’, as she puts it) had been changed such that children born in the U.S. to illegal aliens are not citizens. I have not hear that the 14th Amendment had been repealed. I wondered if it was that part or the whole naturalization thing that was under threat un her New World Order. I’d be a little miffed if she was to think I shouldn’t be allowed to naturalize given I will wager I have paid in more to the tax bucket in my time here without taking a penny out (in individual benefits) than many people. Though I did get a Stafford loan, so I guess I am a drain on society. I also (despite a BA, two MAs and a JD) incapable of filling out online forms correctly, so accoring to **Carol Stream** am unworthy of employment. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/260 "2009-08-25T15:57:22Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Does it matter if they are? It’s not like they personally choose to come to America, it was their parents. > > Regardless your position on the kid’s parents, crippling kid’s futures with lack of education is just cruel. Won’t _somebody_ think of the children? :rolleyes: 😉 I can at least understand the opposition, assuming that the parents are not paying taxes. Why should we pay to educate children whose parents are not contributing to their education, right? Except… Except that a good deal of the cost of education is payed for by property taxes. So what about all of those people who don’t own property? Well, somebody owns their dwellings. And those people pay property taxes out of the rent they receive. Assuming that most illegal aliens do not own property (some do), then they are paying rent. So they are indeed paying, indirectly like other renters, into the educational system. They also pay sales taxes, as they certainly buy things. Many illegal aliens have jobs under false SSNs, and they have payroll taxes withdrawn. The catch is that they cannot benefit from their contributions, since the SSNs don’t belong to them. For all I know someone is contributing to my Social Security, which will benefit me and not him. (Actually, I do read those statements that come every year or half-year or whatever, and nobody is making any payments for me.) In any case, illegal aliens are, through rent at least, contributing to the education fund; so why shouldn’t their kids be taught? Also, a child born in the U.S. is a citizen. All citizens should be educated so as to add value to [del]the collective[/del] society. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898.md?page=14)