# Bri1600BV Has Shown Me The Light! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 18, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898 "2009-08-18T23:43:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/261 "2009-08-25T16:10:40Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Got any cites to back that up? (Psst – opinions don’t count if you’re making claims like that, dearie) Umm, **Guin** , I realize that she’s wrong about pretty much every value judgement she’s posted in this thread, but she WAS asked for her opinion. On that basis, accusing her of making a claim is kinda piling on. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/262 "2009-08-25T16:26:24Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Umm, **Guin** , I realize that she’s wrong about pretty much every value judgement she’s posted in this thread, but she WAS asked for her opinion. On that basis, accusing her of making a claim is kinda piling on. Perhaps, and I appology. However, there is such a thing as an _uninformed opinion_. Using an actual percentage makes her look like the ignorant git that she is. Just because something is an opinion doesn’t mean someone can’t back it up. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/263 "2009-08-25T16:52:39Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Won’t _somebody_ think of the children? :rolleyes: Ahh you mindlessly parroted a Simpson line. That disproves my argument that children shouldn’t be punished with a crippled future for the crimes of their parents because? > [@](#): > > I can at least understand the opposition, assuming that the parents are not paying taxes. Why should we pay to educate children whose parents are not contributing to their education, right? Except… Because it’s the right thing to do. Do I have draw the **curlcoat** ers of the world a fucking map? Immigrant children are just children. They don’t have any control of their life situation. They don’t have any power over the Mexican, nor American economies. The only difference between them and your kids is where they were born. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/264 "2009-08-25T16:56:46Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Ahh you mindlessly parroted a Simpson line. Actually, I purposely quoted a common line that was cribbed by _The Simpsons_. It was also a joke, as evidenced by the 😉 below it. > [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Because it’s the right thing to do. Do I have draw the **curlcoat** ers of the world a fucking map? Immigrant children are just children. They don’t have any control of their life situation. They don’t have any power over the Mexican, nor American economies. The only difference between them and your kids is where they were born. Of course it’s the right thing to do. I said I could understand the **curlcoats** ; not that I agree with them. And I pointed out that if the objection is that the parents are not supporting education, then that is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/265 "2009-08-25T16:59:50Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Actually, I purposely quoted a common line that was cribbed by _The Simpsons_. It was also a joke, as evidenced by the 😉 below it. > > Of course it’s the right thing to do. I said I could understand the **curlcoats** ; not that I agree with them. And I pointed out that if the objection is that the parents are not supporting education, then that is incorrect. Ahh I see. Apologies for the tone of my response. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/266 "2009-08-25T19:17:17Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Regardless your position on the kid’s parents, crippling kid’s futures with lack of education is just cruel. You’re talking to a woman who thinks that children of poor people on welfare just grow up to be on welfare themselves, so it’s better if they’re not even born. She’s a disgusting waste of flesh, and it’s no use attempting to appeal to either logic or common decency, because either she has neither or she’s a troll. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/267 "2009-08-25T19:49:28Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > You’re talking to a woman who thinks that children of poor people on welfare just grow up to be on welfare themselves, so it’s better if they’re not even born. By that reasoning, a child of migrant workers, a child who picked crops didn’t even learn English until he was 12 couldn’t possibly [make anything of himself](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32513816/ns/technology_and_science-space/). ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/268 "2009-08-25T20:24:02Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > By that reasoning, a child of migrant workers, a child who picked crops didn’t even learn English until he was 12 couldn’t possibly [make anything of himself](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32513816/ns/technology_and_science-space/). Psh, \*\*curlcoat \*\*cares not for your logic or your statistics or your examples. She likes her own “logic,” which isn’t, and her own statistics and examples, which she makes up. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/269 "2009-08-25T20:30:10Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Perhaps, and I appology. That should be I _appoloGIZE_. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![LeeshaJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LeeshaJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeeshaJoy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/270 "2009-08-25T20:43:22Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > That should be I _appoloGIZE_. :smack: And there’s only one “p” in “apologize.” Just, y’know, for future reference. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/271 "2009-08-25T20:57:07Z")
> [@LeeshaJoy](#): > > And there’s only one “p” in “apologize.” Just, y’know, for future reference. :smack::smack::smack: it is jist not mie dey fer speling, iz it? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/272 "2009-08-25T21:10:37Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > My opinion? Here in California, probably 20% That’s a little surprising. You think that 20% of people in California who recieve welfare benefits are doing so as a lifestyle choice. I would’ve figured you for a higher number. I apologize for persisting with the questions, but I’m curious how you feel about the 80% who are receiving welfare benefits on a temporary basis. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/273 "2009-08-25T21:34:17Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Um… what? As the vehicles have been well cared for and we keep up with their routine maintenance (mostly oil changes, though the truck needed some stuff replaced a couple years ago) they are actually LOW maintenance, no more than _new_ vehicles, actually. Our insurance costs have actually gone _down_ over the years, due in part to excellent driving records but also because we are careful not to buy more insurance than we need. As our state bases vehicle taxes on the worth the vehicle, the older the vehicle the less it’s worth and the less you pay in taxes on it. None of which is an answer to what I asked, but if you wish to duck the question that is fine with me. > [@](#): > > Yes, I use both for work. He also drives them both. Why is this a cognitive problem for you? It’s not. You claimed earlier, in some other thread, that your husband is quite disabled & that you drove him to his doctor’s appts, so I wasn’t aware he could still drive. Hence the question. Why are you so defensive? > [@](#): > > You bitch that people are receiving assistance (even as you yourself are) No, I am not. Would you call it assistance if I had waited until whatever age you deem appropriate to retire and then taken my SS? Is every retiree on “assistance”? > [@](#): > > yet you also insist they should sell/get rid of _the very things that make them more employable and enable them to get off the “dole”._ I haven’t done that either. For some reason, you find it necessary to make up these stories to deflect attention from yourself, but that doesn’t make them true. > [@Shot From Guns](#): > > ``` > Don't bother to give curlcoat any statistics about how long people are on welfare, guys. She's just going to ignore them because they disagree with the Magical World of curlcoat, where everybody on welfare dines nightly on caviar and champagne, popping out babies with expensive birth defects as they scoff at the fools who actually work for a living. > > ``` Yes, stories like this. Apparently **Shot From Guns** isn’t getting enough opportunities to make things up and sling insults in the other thread, so s/he has followed me here. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/274 "2009-08-25T21:51:07Z")
> [@villa](#): > > I know this was multiple pages back, but what law exactly do you mean? The law about becoming a naturalized citizen or the law about being a citizen if born here. Because neither path to citizenship has been abolished thank God. Did you read forward to where I posted that [cite](http://www.businessweek.com/debateroom/archives/2009/07/anchor_babies_n.html) that everyone else insists on but rarely themselves provide? Nothing is being “abolished” but there is quite a bit discussion and at least the one bill aimed at determining if our current laws apply to anchor babies. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Originally Posted by curlcoat > My opinion? Here in California, probably 20% > > Got any cites to back that up? (Psst – opinions don’t count if you’re making claims like that, dearie) Note that word opinion, which I was asked for. As for a cite, since all of my requests for cites have been ignored in this thread, I hardly see why I should spend time trying to find cites, that you would approve of, to back up an _opinion_. > [@The Tao's Revenge](#): > > Regardless your position on the kid’s parents, crippling kid’s futures with lack of education is just cruel. Um, ok. So you wish to import all of the children in Mexico and provide an education for them? Or is it just the children that are here illegally and technically legally that you are concerned about? If the latter, why the difference? Aren’t you “crippling kid’s futures with a lack of education” and being cruel? Or, could it be that you see that there is a limit to what we can do? And that maybe those who are actually dealing with the huge bill (and budget crisis) that educating all of these children costs might actually have a better grasp of the issues? ---
**Author:** ![LeeshaJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LeeshaJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeeshaJoy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/275 "2009-08-25T22:08:12Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Is every retiree on “assistance”? **Y-E-S.** Maybe if we say it very slowly and loudly, it’ll penetrate. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/276 "2009-08-25T22:53:39Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > It’s not. You claimed earlier, in some other thread, that your husband is quite disabled & that you drove him to his doctor’s appts, so I wasn’t aware he could still drive. Hence the question. Why are you so defensive? :rolleyes: Right, it’s _inconceivable_ that might husband might be ill enough that he shouldn’t drive on some days but not others. He’s having medical testing done tomorrow that requires him to fast from midnight onward, which puts him at a risk of hypoglycemia and even fainting, thus, not safe for him to drive himself tomorrow. If he didn’t have to fast it would be a different matter entirely. Really no different than when he drove me home from my colonoscopy two years ago, when I was still under some effects of sedation and thus not safe to drive. Not that it is any of your business. > [@](#): > > No, I am not. Would you call it assistance if I had waited until whatever age you deem appropriate to retire and then taken my SS? Is every retiree on “assistance”? If they receive social security checks and Medicare, yes, they receive government benefits and are thus on “assistance”. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/277 "2009-08-25T23:20:18Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > So, events beyond your control are only your fault if… I can’t even come up with your logic here. It has nothing to do with that. Whoever that was that said they wouldn’t take their SS so it could go to those who need it most and will “live on what they have squirreled away” is probably being foolish. If s/he really doesn’t end up taking the SS. > [@Harborwolf](#): > > ``` > That's a little surprising. You think that 20% of people in California who recieve welfare benefits are doing so as a lifestyle choice. I would've figured you for a higher number. > > ``` I don’t know why. > [@](#): > > I apologize for persisting with the questions, but I’m curious how you feel about the 80% who are receiving welfare benefits on a temporary basis. As I’ve said many times before, I have no trouble with those that use welfare as it was intended to be used - to tide themselves over when they have no other source of income. > [@LeeshaJoy](#): > > Y-E-S. > > Maybe if we say it very slowly and loudly, it’ll penetrate. Wow. Just - wow. So, to you there is no difference between a retired worker taking their SS, and a 16 year old spending the next 15 or so years raising her kids on the various forms of welfare? ---
**Author:** ![LeeshaJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LeeshaJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeeshaJoy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/278 "2009-08-25T23:24:43Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Wow. Just - wow. So, to you there is no difference between a retired worker taking their SS, and a 16 year old spending the next 15 or so years raising her kids on the various forms of welfare? In the sense that they are both on government assistance, yes. (And please stop referring to it as “taking **their** SS.” It’s not the same money that they paid into the system, and you damn well know it.) ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/279 "2009-08-26T00:02:25Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I don’t know why. Upon re-reading the thread, I’ll say it’s because of what appears to be the low opinion you seem to have for “the poor” or those living off our tax dollars. > [@](#): > > As I’ve said many times before, I have no trouble with those that use welfare as it was intended to be used - to tide themselves over when they have no other source of income. I think I’ve found where my error is. I know. More questions. Full permission to rolleyes as you see fit. What percentage of those on welfare do you think are \*abusing the system \*and if you’d be so kind, define the abuse. > [@](#): > > Wow. Just - wow. So, to you there is no difference between a retired worker taking their SS, and a 16 year old spending the next 15 or so years raising her kids on the various forms of welfare? Can I give a tentative no to this question? I’d not have a problem if she was using the system as intended much in the same way I’d have no problem with a retired worker doing the same. I would have a problem with a person abusing the welfare system much in the same way (and I honestly mean this as no dig at you. Merely an example of potential abuse of the system so as to properly compare apples to apples) I’d have a problem with a person doctor shopping in order to get themselves on SSDI for “chronic pain” or an “anxiety disorder.” ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/280 "2009-08-26T00:40:18Z")
Step 1: Take part of everyone’s salaries. Step 2: After they’re 65, start giving somewhat less money back to them. Step 3: Say “See? You’re dependent on me giving your money back! So stop complaining about having to _give_ me money!” Step 4: ??? Step 5: Profit! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898.md?page=15)