# Bri1600BV Has Shown Me The Light! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 18, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898 "2009-08-18T23:43:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/81 "2009-08-21T04:53:09Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Do you not understand how frustrating your absolute bone-headed ignorance is? Not near as frustrating as your willful stupidity is… ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/82 "2009-08-21T05:03:43Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > Frankly, I don’t, and I don’t see how any intelligent person could. Do you think poor people should not have phones? The best way to get out of poverty would be to find a better job, or to learn more about the world so that you could imagine other ways of making a living than you currently are. I wish more of my tax money went to getting internet access for poor people. No, I don’t think poor people who are living on welfare should have phones, if you mean cell phones. One simple land line, sure. Do you honestly think that the average poor person needs the internet to find a better job or to see a life that is better than the one they currently have? If so, what is wrong with all of this free library access we’ve been hearing about? If you feel that internet access is so important then you are welcome to pay for it. However, since it is highly unlikely that many folks that are living on the taxpayer are using it to better themselves, I don’t think we should be required to pay for it. > [@tdn](#): > > Yes. Just because you pay taxes does not mean that you have the right to micromanage the lives of complete strangers. Well, that doesn’t address what I asked, but what else is new? I think I would fall over amazed if anyone in here actually did that rather than trying to deflect attention from some stupid thing they are being called on. Anyway… Why is it that it is OK with you that complete strangers try to micromanage my life because I pay taxes, but I cannot do something as general as suggest that those living off of those taxes only use my money for necessities? > [@LeeshaJoy](#): > > You’re living on disability payments, right? Nope. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/83 "2009-08-21T05:26:31Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Not really, but I’m not willing to take the full blame for that. Communication is a two-way street, and I feel that you’ve done a very poor job of communicating the source of your frustration. OK, I’ll use small words. I was born in extreme poverty, went up and down between that and upper lower/lower middle class until I was 18 and had to leave my parents’ home. Then I was back in extreme poverty until I managed to work my way up enough to be more or less self sustaining, at which time I met and married my husband. At no time during all of that did I take any form of welfare. Now, due to several genetic problems, I no longer work and have just started receiving SSDI. My husband was born middle class, went to college, worked his way up and makes a good salary. Because I budget, save, and don’t use credit cards much, we now in our 50’s own a house that is worth far more than we owe on it, have no real debt other than the mortgage and have healthy pensions/401Ks. The frustration is two fold. One - even if I hadn’t had to quit working, it was getting to the point that it was cheaper for me not to, due to the amount of taxes we were required to pay on our combined incomes. The last full year that I worked, our IRS and state income taxes added up to significantly more than my _gross_ income. Granted, since I am only a high school graduate, the most I ever made was just under $35,000, but that is a hell of a lot in taxes to be paying out. Yet people here want us to pay more - to fund a UHC, to fund more training, to fund all kinds of things that are supposed to eliminate poor people, as if that is even possible. They seem to feel that because my husband makes over X (a number that varies from person to person), we are obligated to support as many poor people as possible, until we ourselves are also poor. And the people who are the nastiest at demanding that we do this tend to be those who have never been poor, and so have no idea why people are poor. The other, more minor frustration is this bullshit about my SSDI. You better believe that I am going to do all I can to protect our retirement, so since you assholes want us to keep paying tens of thousands of dollars a year in taxes to support all these poor people, then I am going to take back what I have earned. We are not going to go into the poor house just to satisfy your touchy-feely issues with the poor. _We_ live within our means and always have - why is it that our “reward” for that is that others _ **demand** _ that we support them? ---
**Author:** ![torie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@torie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torie)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/84 "2009-08-21T05:51:11Z")
Curlcoat , you’re not a **complete** idiot. I’m sure you can find some numbers that support your claims that most of the poor are shiftless losers buying rims with the spare cash selling their food stamps gets them. I mean, it’s a terrible problem, right? So surely someones quantified it or studied it, right? And you can find these studies, right? And you can post them, right? Get to it, because frankly, I’m tired of the wholly unsupported stereotypes. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/85 "2009-08-21T06:04:54Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > What she does not deserve is to live off the taxes of others while denouncing programs that help others in similar but not identical situations. There is absolutely nothing similar to my drawing my Social Security, and people who live their whole lives on various welfare programs. Surely you are not that big of an idiot that you actually think that? > [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > My daughter is a grown woman now (the waiting list was several years ago) and I’m not going to tell her what she can and can’t do with the money she doesn’t contribute to the household. And I’m honest enough to report what she does contribute. > She is in school and uses this computer for classes. I get online during the day here and there but as you can see I don’t come here often. Either your daughter is a grown woman now or she isn’t. If she is in school and living at home, then she should be helping out with the bills - not the taxpayer. You appear to be able to get online as often as I can… > [@](#): > > And I was making ends meet when I got pregnant. I lost a child several years ago when I was married and was told I couldn’t get pregnant by doctors because of scar tisue on my tubes, then lo and behold even with a condom I got pregnant again. I don’t have to excuse something like this. Everyone makes mistakes. My little girl is not a mistake. The ONLY reason I get food stamps is because she has a disability that makes it exceptionally hard for me to work a full-time job. I do not get food stamps because I am lazy or stupid or foolish. OK. You were “making ends meet” - not making enough to get ahead, have savings or any of that. You got pregnant, and went ahead and had the kid, and even tho she requires that you take money from the taxpayer, that isn’t a mistake? You requiring that the taxpayer raise your kid - a child you apparently couldn’t afford from conception - isn’t lazy, stupid or foolish? > [@](#): > > This is a fine example of what I was talking about earlier. Fuck your stereotypes. We are people. We aren’t underclass heroes or bums or baby factories or whatever label you want to stick on people who seek assistance. You are what the stereotypes describe. You ended up on assistance because of your selfish choice to have a child you couldn’t afford. I don’t care that the doctor told you that you couldn’t get pregnant or that the condom broke, simply because you become pregnant doesn’t mean that you should decide to have and keep a baby you cannot afford to raise. Except, of course, you can because society values babies above all else. There will always be responsible people around that will have money to let you have as many babies as you want. > [@torie](#): > > ``` > Curlcoat , you're not a complete idiot. I'm sure you can find some numbers that support your claims that most of the poor are shiftless losers buying rims with the spare cash selling their food stamps gets them. > > ``` I have no idea if there are any such numbers since I have never made any statements that are anything like that. ---
**Author:** ![Tinkertoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f19dbf/32.png) [@Tinkertoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tinkertoy)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/86 "2009-08-21T06:53:46Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Why would you go to the library and access a message board if you didn’t have a computer at home? Or were you also accessing the board from work? I’m not really getting this. Because it was fun, informative and something I enjoyed. Of course that was wrong because I was poor and shouldn’t enjoy myself on the taxpayers dime.:rolleyes: I’ve been poor most of my life even though I have worked since I was 11. Now I am disabled and am going on SSDI. So am I scum for living on your dime even though I have payed my taxes for 36 years, but I didn’t pay as much as you and your husband? Does it matter that I will never live to be old enough to draw my SSI at 65? I just want to know where I fit on your scale. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/87 "2009-08-21T10:42:18Z")
> [@LeeshaJoy](#): > > You’re living on disability payments, right? Why haven’t you canceled your Internet service yet? **curlcoat** is living off her husband, who supposedly makes a lot of money. The disability payments are just an extra bonus. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/88 "2009-08-21T11:17:07Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Why is it that it is OK with you that complete strangers try to micromanage my life because I pay taxes, but I cannot do something as general as suggest that those living off of those taxes only use my money for necessities? I’d really love to see an end to the whole “my tax dollars” thing too. I’ve told this story before, but I love to tell it and it’s always appropriate to this sort of discussion. I worked at a state park and occasionally a person would trot out the whole “my tax dollars pay for this park and your salary why should I give you more money to come into the park” gripe. Our park manager had done the math and figured that on average the “my tax dollars” contribution was about a nickel. Any time the “my tax dollars” argument was dragged out, we were to ask them if they wanted their nickel back. **Curlcoat** , would you shutup if we gave you your nickel back? ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/89 "2009-08-21T11:19:38Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > **curlcoat** is living off her husband, who supposedly makes a lot of money. The disability payments are just an extra bonus. And she only takes disability because she paid into the system and doggone it she’s gonna get that money back. And I’m totally sure she’ll stop taking it when she gets what she paid in. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/90 "2009-08-21T11:21:28Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Except, of course, you can because society values babies above all else. There will always be responsible people around that will have money to let you have as many babies as you want. Better that than an icky abortion. And with that post, I’ve hit the **curlcoat hat trick**. Let’s see some hats on the ice peeps. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/91 "2009-08-21T12:16:47Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Why would you go to the library and access a message board if you didn’t have a computer at home? Isn’t that like asking why you’d go to the library to borrow a book? Seriously, is it that hard a concept for you, that many, if not most, libraries offer free internet access and that people without home computers will go to the library to use that access? Why NOT access a message board? There’s a long-running job seeker support thread on the Dope, you don’t think that would be useful? I’ve gotten several job leads from other posters here. There’s advice on how to cook healthy but cheap meals over in Cafe Society. That’s just on this one forum alone. Can you not see that there is some utility in the internet for the poor who are seeking to better themselves? You claim you were raised poor and lifted yourself up - did you not utilize the resources around you? Why would someone in a similar position today NOT go to the library and use whatever they have to offer? Even _with_ a computer at home I have learned my library’s internet access rules because it’s a back up to my home system in a way. When my town was hit with a tornado last year and my power was out at home for awhile I went to the library to get my e-mail and communicate with the various businesses I was applying to. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/92 "2009-08-21T12:22:44Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > No, I don’t think poor people who are living on welfare should have phones, if you mean cell phones. One simple land line, sure. What if said poor person has a job that _requires_ a cellphone? When I worked for the US Census we _had_ to have a cellphone. Granted, it did not need to be a fully loaded iPhone or whatever, but having a cell phone was a job requirement. Don’t assume that a cellphone is automatically a frill, particularly if it is a basic model with a minimal plan. > [@](#): > > Do you honestly think that the average poor person needs the internet to find a better job or to see a life that is better than the one they currently have? Yes, because almost all jobs now require that you apply on line. If you can’t get on line, you can’t fill out the app. This is a fairly recent change so, if you haven’t looked for a job in the past few years you wouldn’t be aware of it. > [@](#): > > If so, what is wrong with all of this free library access we’ve been hearing about? > > If you feel that internet access is so important then you are welcome to pay for it. However, since it is highly unlikely that many folks that are living on the taxpayer are using it to better themselves, I don’t think we should be required to pay for it. You ARE paying for it - public libraries and their internet access are paid for via taxes. And I don’t see why you’d complain about that - you’re not going to be able to play _World of Warcraft_ on a library computer for 10 hours a day, every library I’ve been to would have rules against monopolizing a machine that long, or downloading that sort of game. While some library internet use is for entertainment the vast majority is either research, job, or communication oriented. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/93 "2009-08-21T12:24:34Z")
I’ve been shit-in-the-woods poor. TP is better in the summer than in the fall or winter. Top that! ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/94 "2009-08-21T13:27:34Z")
> [@torie](#): > > Curlcoat , you’re not a **complete** idiot. She doesn’t understand why a person with no computer at home would use one elsewhere. Yes, she is indeed a complete idiot. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/95 "2009-08-21T15:03:46Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > The other, more minor frustration is this bullshit about my SSDI. You better believe that I am going to do all I can to protect our retirement, so since you assholes want us to keep paying tens of thousands of dollars a year in taxes to support all these poor people, then I am going to take back what I have earned. We are not going to go into the poor house just to satisfy your touchy-feely issues with the poor. _We_ live within our means and always have - why is it that our “reward” for that is that others _ **demand** _ that we support them? OK, then in that same way, I don’t want any of my money going to you. Why should I support you? Live within your means? Bullshit. You’re accepting money from Uncle Sam and NOT working, because by your own admission it is cheaper (easier for you). You could work, but you choose not to. So what makes you better than them? If they are a parasite, then so are you. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/96 "2009-08-21T15:07:02Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > She doesn’t understand why a person with no computer at home would use one elsewhere. Yes, she is indeed a complete idiot. This is patently evident to anyone who attempts to converse with curlcoat for at least five seconds. Potentially less. ---
**Author:** ![torie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@torie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torie)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/97 "2009-08-21T15:11:57Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > She doesn’t understand why a person with no computer at home would use one elsewhere. Yes, she is indeed a complete idiot. She also denies saying what she says, won’t offer any substantial evidence to back up her claims, and suggests another poster’s child is a mistake that should have been aborted. So not only is she a complete idiot, she’s a disgusting, vile complete idiot with a black little heart. Her opinion officially counts for absolutely nothing. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/98 "2009-08-21T16:13:44Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > Honestly though, I wouldn’t mind if they limited the types of food one could purchase with the EBT food card, but what worries me is what they consider healthy. Take the sweets off, and the sodas. It wouldn’t be that hard. They have a non-food option on the cash register. I’m sure they could come up with a simple way to include junk food. They have made it where you can buy seeds and small food bearing plants even though those are technically non-foods at my store so surely they could find a way if it’s really that important that we not be allowed lobster and steak. > > It’s just the condescension I have a problem with. A protein mush? Whatever is cheapest to keep us from enjoying our freebies? > > I get the frustration with seeing people buying lobster with food stamps when you’re having beans and rice you paid for. I lived that side for a long time before I gave in and asked for help. It shamed the hell out of me to go to that place and apply. Every time I use the card I’m embarrassed. I know some people are fine with it, and it’s even become a way of life they’re happy with. But not for me. It’s uncomfortable enough to admit on this board and I hate that I can’t work out a way to get a job and take my daughter to therapy and work with her. I am looking. I keep a child care ad up and occasionally get a babysitting gig but not often. I need help right now, just like a lot of other people. I’m not going to be comfortable whether I’m eating a steak, or a bag of 1.99 turkey meatballs and egg noodles like I just had for dinner. People don’t buy lobster and caviar with food stamps. Perhaps maybe a systems gamer or 2 could have done it once or twice. But that is not a problem with the program. I saw a study a few years ago, that due to people claiming food stamp abuses, investigations were run. The investigations cost a lot more that the so called abuses they uncovered. Food stamp applicants go through a rigorous process before they are deemed elligible. Then they get subsistence levels of help. They have to make tough choices every day. It is not running wild with free money. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/99 "2009-08-21T16:17:40Z")
But but but everybody knows about the welfare queens driving Bentleys and popping out a dozen babies in a row so they can keep upgrading dinner to fancier and fancier steaks! It \*\*must \*\*be true! ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898/100 "2009-08-21T17:53:09Z")
You know, not too long ago I had a job as a property manager for buildings that were HUD properties. This was a very mediocre paying job and we really had to struggle to make ends meet. It was actually one of two jobs that I was working at the time because we were saving up for a down payment on a condo. I remember very vividly the time that I was helping with the annual unit by unit inspection being stunned at the level of consumer goods that I saw in many of these units. Leather couches, plasma televisions and so forth. So I get the frustration that a lot of people have with poverty and the whole realm of government assistance. I sure felt it that day when I contemplated going from there to my second job and then back to my crappy apartment. The thing is, though, that I can’t help but think that a lot of this ire is still rooted in anti poor person prejudice. Because it really isn’t about being angry at people gaming the system. If this was the case we would hear a lot more people howling for blood over the current state of the economy and all of the recent bail-outs. What I really think that this is about is some sort of smug attitude, some hierarchy bullshit and a whole lot of fear. Because it sure would be nice to think that I there is a straight line between hard work and the results that you wind up with and is sue is nice to feel better than others but the cold hard truth is that a lot of what happens to us and were we wind up is pretty random. I believe that our worth as a society is directly reflected in how well we care for those whom life has dealt a raw deal. And that sure is not peoplechow. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bri1600bv-has-shown-me-the-light/506898.md?page=6)