# Brian Size vrs Hard Drive **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 25, 2003, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-size-vrs-hard-drive/215250 "2003-11-25T20:45:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![LuckyLuciano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85e7bf/32.png) [@LuckyLuciano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LuckyLuciano)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-size-vrs-hard-drive/215250/1 "2003-11-25T20:45:49Z")
How much space would an average adult brian with all its knowledge occupy in relation to hard drive space? So with all the knowledge a person gains along with memories etc. how big of a hard drive would it take to hold all that info hypothatically. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-size-vrs-hard-drive/215250/2 "2003-11-25T20:51:14Z")
[How Many Bytes in Human memory?](http://www.merkle.com/humanMemory.html) > [@](#): > > Several approximations to this number have already appeared in the literature based on “hardware” considerations (though in the case of the human brain perhaps the term “wetware” is more appropriate). One estimate of 10[sup]20[/sup] bits is actually an early estimate (by Von Neumann in The Computer and the Brain) of all the neural impulses conducted in the brain during a lifetime. This number is almost certainly larger than the true answer. Another method is to estimate the total number of synapses, and then presume that each synapse can hold a few bits. Estimates of the number of synapses have been made in the range from 10[sup]13[/sup] to 10[sup]15[/sup], with corresponding estimates of memory capacity. ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-size-vrs-hard-drive/215250/3 "2003-11-25T20:59:14Z")
> [@](#): > > The 1,500 cubic centimeter human brain is about 100,000 times as large as the retina, suggesting that matching overall human behavior will take about 100 million MIPS of computer power. That’s the best guess at this web page:[When will computer hardware match the human brain?](http://www.transhumanist.com/volume1/moravec.htm). They seem to have their shit together. It’s looking like machines should be able to reach this benchmark around the 2015-2025 time frame, assuming Moore’s law (and related trends) exponential growth continues steadily. DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-size-vrs-hard-drive/215250/4 "2003-11-25T21:04:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dalovindj \* > **That’s the best guess at this web page:[When will computer hardware match the human brain?](http://www.transhumanist.com/volume1/moravec.htm). They seem to have their shit together. It’s looking like machines should be able to reach this benchmark around the 2015-2025 time frame, assuming Moore’s law (and related trends) exponential growth continues steadily.** I think you misread the question. The OP was asking about storage space. Still, interesting info. I don’t know as we’ll ever be able to develop a computer with the power of the human brain. Even if we _could_, I’m not so sure we _should_. ---
**Author:** ![radar\_ralf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b2d939/32.png) [@radar\_ralf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/radar_ralf)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-size-vrs-hard-drive/215250/5 "2003-11-25T21:08:34Z")
Brian size? The adult brian? You guys are scarin’ me over here… ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-size-vrs-hard-drive/215250/6 "2003-11-25T21:15:31Z")
> [@](#): > > I think you misread the question. Well, it’s kind of hard to answer the question as phrased given the lack of understanding in regards to the specific mechanisms of human memory. We are still unlocking the wonders of human brains. As it is difficult to say exactly how much data it takes to maintain or form a memory, it is difficult to say how much storage space we would need (never mind what type). As a result of these quandries there are several methods that achieve a ‘best guess’ of what kinds of power it takes to run a brain and how that translates into computer specs. I agree that the subject is very interesting. A big thing to note IMO is the fact that just because we have (or will have) a computer that matches or exceeds the power and storage capacities of a human brain does not mean that we have the proper software to creat an artificial intelligence. Basically, the $20,000 question becomes “Where is the human software stored?” Is it a physical, describable, and therefore reverse-engineerable feature of the mind? Or is it a metaphysical intangible soul of some kind? Now we must invite theology based ‘best guesses’ as well as scientific ones until better data is collected. DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-size-vrs-hard-drive/215250/7 "2003-11-25T21:23:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dalovindj \* > **Basically, the $20,000 question becomes “Where is the human software stored?” Is it a physical, describable, and therefore reverse-engineerable feature of the mind?** I’d wager good money that it’s completely physical and reverse-engineerable. Granted, we’re some ways from being able to do that, but I’m certain that at some point we’ll have a more or less complete understanding of how the human brain does what it does. ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-size-vrs-hard-drive/215250/8 "2003-11-25T21:42:49Z")
I tend to agree. ---
**Author:** ![Jpeg\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4bbf92/32.png) [@Jpeg\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jpeg_Jones)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-size-vrs-hard-drive/215250/9 "2003-11-25T22:16:48Z")
I think the question is clouded further by the analog-digital situation. Is the brain digital? I doubt it. Suppose we had a way to convert the memory of your grandmother’s oatmeal cookies into bits and bytes. What resolution of a-d conversion would we use? Would we be storing a very rough approximation of cookie, or an extremely detailed total-sensory cookie experience? In other words, are we storing the WAV or the MP3 here? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-size-vrs-hard-drive/215250/10 "2003-11-25T22:29:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jpeg Jones \* > \*\*I think the question is clouded further by the analog-digital situation. > > Is the brain digital? I doubt it. Suppose we had a way to convert the memory of your grandmother’s oatmeal cookies into bits and bytes. What resolution of a-d conversion would we use? Would we be storing a very rough approximation of cookie, or an extremely detailed total-sensory cookie experience? > > In other words, are we storing the WAV or the MP3 here? \*\* Neural network technololgy was developed to mimic the way organic brains are thought to work. They’ve been surprisingly successful at being able to solve the types of problems that organic brains excel at, but digital computers find extremely difficult, such as pattern recognition. A neural net can be emulated on a digital platform, or assembled using vast networks of logic gates, as found in PAL chips. Interestingly, neural nets built with PALs not only use the digital circuitry, but also appear to use analog characteristics of the chip that are unique to that particular chip. Attempts to transfer the learned algorithms from one chip to another often fail because of this. Perhaps the brain is a similar melange of analog and digital methods. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-size-vrs-hard-drive/215250/11 "2003-11-25T22:36:31Z")
Computers are extremely organized. Data flows over very strictly defined and relatively narrow paths. The brain, on the other hand, has data paths all over the friggen place. If you need to add 4 million numbers to 4 million other numbers, a current technology computer will beat the pants off of any human brain I know of. On the other hand, pick up the nearest object on your desk and name it. Out of all of the things in your life you have ever come in contact with, you can recognize it, name it almost instantly, and instantly recall numerous features about that object. There isn’t a computer in the world that can do that, and won’t be any time in the foreseable future. Even when a hard drive gets to the point where it can store more raw data than the human brain, the computer that drives it will never be able to access it the same way that the brain does. ---
**Author:** ![boofy\_bloke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@boofy\_bloke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boofy_bloke)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2003, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-size-vrs-hard-drive/215250/12 "2003-11-26T02:40:34Z")
I reckon that the human brain reuses certain data - e.g. Sweetness - and puts 3 hyperlinks from “Oatmeal biscuit” to “Sweetness” and 4 links to “Crunchy” and 9 to “Grandma”, thereby giving you the full sensorium. Grandma’s “High-fibre muesli cake” would have a different set of links, but.