# Brian Williams Helicopter story: blowhard BS, but not a fireable offense **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 6, 2015, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953 "2015-02-06T07:09:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/1 "2015-02-06T07:09:49Z")
A lot of media types, mostly, by the way, on the right, have been calling for NBC anchor Brian Williams to be fired for telling what is even now by his own admission a bit of a “bubba meise” about an incident in the Iraq war: During the story, Williams does NOTHING to portray himself as any sort of hero, and actually is self-deprecating, and maybe a little disingenuous on doing so, but does all he can to put over the pilot of the helicopter that was "hit" by enemy fire. Well, some whining, hair splitting vets challenged the story, and Williams confessed his well meaning attempts to deify that pilot lead to him not being factually accurate (something, that by the way the Pentagon under the Bush administration SHAMELESSLY did, over and over again, during our illegal invasion of Iraq) Yet, already there are now calls from the right for "Lyin' Brian" to step down as NBC anchor. Why???? WHY???? He didn’t create a fake news story------this was a personal narrative, albeit a bit of a tall tale. He didn’t put himself over as a hero. He put a member of the armed services over as a hero, and in his apology, went overboard kissing the ass of the military in doing so. Douche? Bullshitter? Yes. Should be fired from NBC? Come on now. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/2 "2015-02-06T07:41:14Z")
An unreliable reporter? I suppose if he is really to be considered a propagandist, then it is okay to keep him. He served the official narrative well with this fabrication. But I really don’t want my news from him. He got his eyewitness account wrong. He seems like a nice fellow, but I don’t want my news reports from him. That being said, I’m aware that news reporters have bias, propagandize and fabricate frequently. I’ve got to wade through it and figure out who to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/3 "2015-02-06T08:30:12Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > A lot of media types, mostly, by the way, on the right, have been calling for NBC anchor Brian Williams to be fired for telling what is even now by his own admission a bit of a “bubba meise” about an incident in the Iraq war: > > During the story, Williams does NOTHING to portray himself as any sort of hero, and actually is self-deprecating, and maybe a little disingenuous on doing so, but does all he can to put over the pilot of the helicopter that was "hit" by enemy fire. > > Well, some whining, hair splitting vets challenged the story, and Williams confessed his well meaning attempts to deify that pilot lead to him not being factually accurate (something, that by the way the Pentagon under the Bush administration SHAMELESSLY did, over and over again, during our illegal invasion of Iraq) > > Yet, already there are now calls from the right for "Lyin' Brian" to step down as NBC anchor. Why???? WHY???? > > He didn’t create a fake news story------this was a personal narrative, albeit a bit of a tall tale. > > He didn’t put himself over as a hero. > > He put a member of the armed services over as a hero, and in his apology, went overboard kissing the ass of the military in doing so. > > Douche? Bullshitter? Yes. > > Should be fired from NBC? Come on now. I don’t know how uniform the calls from the right for him to resign have been. Im always wary of such calls. Is this a sackable offense? Maybe, maybe not. However, it will be used to constantly undermine the man and his organisation. And this undermining of him is quite justifiable a stance to take. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/4 "2015-02-06T12:11:53Z")
Blowhard BS. Yes Fireable offense. No Consider him a trustworthy source for news. No ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/5 "2015-02-06T12:23:11Z")
He isn’t just a random reporter embellishing his resume. He’s MANAGING EDITOR. If he stays in that position, the credibility of the entire news operation is tarnished. It may take a couple of weeks, but I think he has to go. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/6 "2015-02-06T12:34:01Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > Blowhard BS. Yes > Fireable offense. No > Consider him a trustworthy source for news. No I wish the blowhard no ill will, except that he deserves to be so embarrassed for a time that he wouldn’t want to show his face in public. But your answer to your third questions does suggest that the answer to your second question should be “yes”. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/7 "2015-02-06T12:44:22Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > Blowhard BS. Yes > Fireable offense. No > Consider him a trustworthy source for news. No > [@magellan01](#): > > I wish the blowhard no ill will, except that he deserves to be so embarrassed for a time that he wouldn’t want to show his face in public. But your answer to your third questions does suggest that the answer to your second question should be “yes”. I was about to post this very same point; that this lie may undermine confidence viewers may have in him. Whether NBC believe this lack of confidence is significant enough to fire him is their own judgement call. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/8 "2015-02-06T12:49:45Z")
I was surprised to see that even in his apology, he is saying that he was in a “following aircraft”, and the Washington Post is saying Williams’ helicopter arrived an hour after the one that got fired upon. Following suggests a convoy to me, like he might have witnessed the damage. Arriving an hour later is not following, it’s just later. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/9 "2015-02-06T12:50:04Z")
There is an interesting report that Tom Brokaw wants him fired, not sure how good that story is. Yeah, he has a faulty memory, much like Hillary and her ducking on the tarmac. It will blow over. I have more of a problem with his over the top soldier worship apology than with the false memory itself. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/10 "2015-02-06T13:08:28Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > There is an interesting report that Tom Brokaw wants him fired, not sure how good that story is. Yeah, he has a faulty memory, much like Hillary and her ducking on the tarmac. It will blow over. I have more of a problem with his over the top soldier worship apology than with the false memory itself. Are you using ‘faulty memory’ as a euphemism for liar? If so, stop it. Unless Brian and Hillary are suffering from some sort of dementia, their memories didn’t fail them. What failed them is their integrity. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/11 "2015-02-06T13:13:52Z")
I’m not so quick to condemn. I can imagine Williams hunkered down with the soldiers and they start talking about it and one of the guys says “yeah, we took some flak on the way in” and maybe Williams got confused, thinking that he was on the same helicopter. Perhaps he heard the gunfire and thought they were hit. If this was the biggest lie of the Bush era wars, I’d be quite relieved. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/12 "2015-02-06T13:14:09Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > There is an interesting report that Tom Brokaw wants him fired, not sure how good that story is. Yeah, he has a\*\* faulty memory,\*\* much like Hillary and her ducking on the tarmac. It will blow over. I have more of a problem with his over the top soldier worship apology than with the **false memory** itself. Are you sure a \*false \*and _faulty_ memory adequately describe what Williams is accused of? edit: too late ---
**Author:** ![CGav8r](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@CGav8r](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CGav8r)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/13 "2015-02-06T13:25:16Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > I was surprised to see that even in his apology, he is saying that he was in a “following aircraft”, and the Washington Post is saying Williams’ helicopter arrived an hour after the one that got fired upon. Following suggests a convoy to me, like he might have witnessed the damage. Arriving an hour later is not following, it’s just later. The pilot of the helicopter Williams was in says that they \*were \*part of the formation where the helo in front of them took an RPG, and he also indicated that all three helos in the formation did take small arms fire and evasive maneuvers. They also dropped off their payload, then met up with the other helos that were in the formation about 45 mins later, which may explain why Stars and Stripes reported them arriving an hour after the helo that took the RPG. > **[Controversy grows over Brian Williams' Iraq apology](https://money.cnn.com/2015/02/05/media/brian-williams-iraq/)** > > NBC anchor Brian Williams says he made an innocent mistake in recounting an incident in Iraq in 2003. But many questions linger a day after his on-air apology. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/14 "2015-02-06T13:26:28Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’m not so quick to condemn. I can imagine Williams hunkered down with the soldiers and they start talking about it and one of the guys says “yeah, we took some flak on the way in” and maybe Williams got confused, thinking that he was on the same helicopter. Perhaps he heard the gunfire and thought they were hit. If this was the biggest lie of the Bush era wars, I’d be quite relieved. We are all aware of recent history and the pretenses under which the west invaded Iraq. Brian (and Hillary) are not the least among us when it comes to familiarity with the truth (& lies) of these events. It would behoove them to at least be honest in their day to day public lives about it and not add to that pile of horseshit. But in Hillary’s defense, she’s a politician so she probably can’t help herself. I expected more, and thought better, of Brian Williams. My bad. p.s. I haven’t yet decided if it’s a fireable offense, but I do sincerly hope his conscience eats at him every time he reports the nightly news. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/15 "2015-02-06T13:34:03Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Are you sure a \*false \*and _faulty_ memory adequately describe what Williams is accused of? That’s [a kindly interpretation.](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/02/04/383877548/nbcs-brian-williams-admits-his-helicopter-took-no-fire-in-iraq) \*“The story actually started with a terrible moment a dozen years back during the invasion of Iraq when the helicopter we were traveling in was forced down after being hit by an RPG,” Williams said on the broadcast (last Friday). “Our traveling NBC News team was rescued, surrounded and kept alive by an armor mechanized platoon from the U.S. Army 3rd Infantry.” But Stars And Stripes adds: “The NBC anchor was nowhere near that aircraft or two other Chinooks flying in the formation that took fire. Williams arrived in the area about an hour later on another helicopter after the other three had made an emergency landing, the crew members said.”"\* Hard to see how you’d get mixed up about such a vivid event. Even with the fog of war and all that. :dubious: Maybe Williams could be reassigned to the creative writing department. or the Clinton 2016 campaign. Props to the OP for vivid _tu quoque_ allusions to the Bush Administration, illegal invasion of Iraq, our shameful deification of the miltary etc. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/16 "2015-02-06T14:00:51Z")
> [@CGav8r](#): > > The pilot of the helicopter Williams was in says that they \*were \*part of the formation where the helo in front of them took an RPG, and he also indicated that all three helos in the formation did take small arms fire and evasive maneuvers. They also dropped off their payload, then met up with the other helos that were in the formation about 45 mins later, which may explain why Stars and Stripes reported them arriving an hour after the helo that took the RPG. > > [Controversy grows over Brian Williams' Iraq apology](http://money.cnn.com/2015/02/05/media/brian-williams-iraq/) Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![CGav8r](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@CGav8r](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CGav8r)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/17 "2015-02-06T14:15:25Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > That’s [a kindly interpretation.](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/02/04/383877548/nbcs-brian-williams-admits-his-helicopter-took-no-fire-in-iraq) \*“The story actually started with a terrible moment a dozen years back during the invasion of Iraq when the helicopter we were traveling in was forced down after being hit by an RPG,” Williams said on the broadcast (last Friday). “Our traveling NBC News team was rescued, surrounded and kept alive by an armor mechanized platoon from the U.S. Army 3rd Infantry.” > > But Stars And Stripes adds: “ **The NBC anchor was nowhere near that aircraft or two other Chinooks flying in the formation that took fire. Williams arrived in the area about an hour later on another helicopter after the other three had made an emergency landing, the crew members said**.”"\* > > Hard to see how you’d get mixed up about such a vivid event. Even with the fog of war and all that. :dubious: > > Maybe Williams could be reassigned to the creative writing department. or the Clinton 2016 campaign. > > Props to the OP for vivid _tu quoque_ allusions to the Bush Administration, illegal invasion of Iraq, our shameful deification of the miltary etc. 🙂 See my earlier post that contradicts the paragraph from Stars and Stripes. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/18 "2015-02-06T14:52:38Z")
> [@CGav8r](#): > > See my earlier post that contradicts the paragraph from Stars and Stripes. That story appears to be controversial. From a [NYT article](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/06/business/brian-williamss-apology-over-iraq-account-is-challenged.html): > [@](#): > > In 2013, Mr. Williams told David Letterman that he had actually been on the helicopter that got shot down, adding that a crew member had been injured and received a medal. “We figured out how to land safely,” he said, “we landed very quickly and hard. We were stuck, four birds in the desert and we were north out ahead of the other Americans.” And on the “Nightly News” last week, he described “a terrible moment a dozen years back during the invasion of Iraq when the helicopter we were traveling in was forced down after being hit by an R.P.G.,” a reference to a rocket-propelled grenade. > > Mr. Summerlin said that Mr. Williams’s helicopter was part of a different mission and at least 30 minutes behind theirs. His account is supported by two of the pilots of Mr. Williams’s own helicopter, Christopher Simeone and Allan Kelly, who said in an interview that they did not recall their convoy of helicopters coming under fire. After the initial piece aired on NBC in 2003, Mr. Summerlin and his crew went looking for reporters on their base in Kuwait to tell them about the inaccuracies in Mr. Williams’s reporting. Instead, they wound up leaving notes in several news vans encouraging them to get in touch. Years later, they were still frustrated by Mr. Williams’s recounting. > > “When he was on the air on the Letterman show, I was going crazy,” Mr. Simeone said. “I was thinking ‘This guy is such a liar and everyone believes it.’ ” > > On Thursday, **yet another pilot, Rich Krell, gave a different account, telling CNN that he had in fact flown Mr. Williams, and their helicopter had come under attack. Mr. Simeone and Mr. Kelly strongly disputed Mr. Krell’s account.** Here’s an [article by Chinook pilot Christopher Simeone](http://pagesix.com/2015/02/05/pilot-of-brian-williams-flight-all-that-hit-us-was-dust/) that includes: > [@](#): > > Brian Williams reported on the David Letterman show that the “captain” of his aircraft had received a Purple Heart for a wound to the ear. I was the pilot in command of the aircraft carrying Brian Williams. I do not have a Purple Heart, and my ears are just fine. > > The MSNBC video coverage is a blend of Brian Williams riding on my aircraft followed by footage of the parked “Big Windy” aircraft that was shot up long before our arrival. > > Brian Williams’ account is not true. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/19 "2015-02-06T15:00:35Z")
That article by the Chinook pilot includes an embedded video of the original NBC news story by Brian Williams. In it, he makes no claim of his helicopter being shot at. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/20 "2015-02-06T15:08:27Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > I was about to post this very same point; that this lie may undermine confidence viewers may have in him. Whether NBC believe this lack of confidence is significant enough to fire him is their own judgement call. Too late, for me. I lost any respect I may have had for him as a journalist long ago when he did a softball interview with Dick Cheney. As managing editor, he’s let the news become the snooze, with endless (and error-filled) weather reports, stories about sports and entertainment figures, and dog stories. I’ve continued to watch him out of habit, but I think I’m done. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953.md?page=2)