# Brian Williams Helicopter story: blowhard BS, but not a fireable offense **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 6, 2015, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953 "2015-02-06T07:09:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/221 "2015-02-21T00:47:14Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > You are theorizing that at some time after arriving in Buenos Aires in 1982, he traveled hundreds of miles to the offshore war zone, by some clandestine private means (there being no active civilian connection with the mainland, and no facilitation for American journalists by either side), had dangerous escapades including “a combat situation” and “being chased by the army,” and then got out again… _and he failed to tell any of this story in his own memoir_, apart from the visit to B.A.? I have no idea. Hopping a private boat for a day-trip from, say, Punta Arenas to Stanley doesn’t seem particularly outrageous, or memoir-worthy if nothing happened during the voyage. But that’s mere speculation on my part. I certainly don’t think it’s as noteworthy a trip as you cast it to be. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/222 "2015-02-21T00:49:10Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m very surprised by this idea, that during an active war, the British Army would be unable to prevent reporters from coming in to a tiny island. > > At this point, if you’re interested in specifics, I’d invite you to do some Googling. There are many articles online, and if you have specific questions, it’s much more efficient for you to do the preliminary research instead of continuing to ask me the questions and hoping I’ll go research the answers. You’re the one making the claim that he lied. It’s not for me to invent scenario after scenario and show how each one is possible. It’s for you to identify two statements which supposedly contradict one another. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/223 "2015-02-21T01:00:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You’re the one making the claim that he lied. It’s not for me to invent scenario after scenario and show how each one is possible. It’s for you to identify two statements which supposedly contradict one another. I’ve done so: he claimed to be in the Falklands, and others have said it’s extremely unlikely he could have been there. ---
**Author:** ![rock\_party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@rock\_party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rock_party)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/224 "2015-02-21T01:25:19Z")
While not admitting guilt, his response that he’s not required to give viewers unbiased facts and, “It’s perfectly fine for commentators like me to give my opinion about events,” he is telling us there will be no reprimand, no 6 month hiatus without pay. Him lying is “perfectly fine.” ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/225 "2015-02-21T01:41:46Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Here are some quotes: > If you refer to an active war zone in the Falklands, it is not reasonable to expect the reader to infer you mean a protest in Buenos Aires. > > That said, I kind of agree with **rock party**. Nobody who’s paying any attention at all should take O’Reilly seriously: he’s kind of the king of the full-of-shit blowhards, clearly an entertainer for those who desire the children to vacate their lawn. Williams is different, and it’s appropriate to hold him to different standards. It’s worth noting that O’Reilly was exorciated by a guy named Tucker Carlson for doing exactly that. In fact Carlson laid into O’Reilly for bragging about doing exactly that at a convention of war correspondents, all of whom had seen more action than O’Reilly. He compared it to a guy who’d served in the Army reserves during Vietnam bragging about how brave he was in front of a bunch of Green Berets. For those not familiar with him, Tucker Carlson is the founder of the Daily Caller and not to be confused with Keith Olbermann or Rachel Maddow. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/226 "2015-02-21T02:01:21Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’ve done so: he claimed to be in the Falklands, and others have said it’s extremely unlikely he could have been there. This is an order of magnitude apart from Brian Williams’ case: Williams’ claim was specifically and directly contradicted by someone who was there. And even that doesn’t make Williams a liar, just mistaken. “Unlikely,” in other words, does not prove O’Reilly a liar. There is no contradiction, just a general sense that his story is unlikely. Yes? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/227 "2015-02-21T02:23:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I have no idea. Hopping a private boat for a day-trip from, say, Punta Arenas to Stanley doesn’t seem particularly outrageous, or memoir-worthy if nothing happened during the voyage. > > But that’s mere speculation on my part. I certainly don’t think it’s as noteworthy a trip as you cast it to be. As _I_ cast it to be? We’re talking about O’Reilly’s own, post-memoir, claims of having “been there” and “almost been killed.” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/228 "2015-02-21T02:33:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > This is an order of magnitude apart from Brian Williams’ case: Williams’ claim was specifically and directly contradicted by someone who was there. And even that doesn’t make Williams a liar, just mistaken. > > “Unlikely,” in other words, does not prove O’Reilly a liar. There is no contradiction, just a general sense that his story is unlikely. > > Yes? I’ll just remind you that this isn’t a courtroom, and the standards of evidence are significantly lower. I’m pretty satisfied, based on what folks who were there say about security, and based on O’Reilly’s decision not to prove his claims but rather to call the MJ reporter naughty names, that O’Reilly is yet again full of shit. If you’re not so satisfied, and if you care about the issue, I invite you to do your own research, because I’m not particularly interested in doing more for you on this subject. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/229 "2015-02-21T02:41:52Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’ll just remind you that this isn’t a courtroom, and the standards of evidence are significantly lower. I’m pretty satisfied, based on what folks who were there say about security, and based on O’Reilly’s decision not to prove his claims but rather to call the MJ reporter naughty names, that O’Reilly is yet again full of shit. If you’re not so satisfied, and if you care about the issue, I invite you to do your own research, because I’m not particularly interested in doing more for you on this subject. You may want to look up “burden of proof”. And who has it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/230 "2015-02-21T02:47:07Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You may want to look up “burden of proof”. And who has it. Astonishingly enough, magellan, you’re wrong on this, too. I have no desire to look it up, nor do I care who you think has any burden on a fucking messageboard. If you have something substantive to add to the discussion, however, here I am holding my breath: :o ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/231 "2015-02-21T03:19:25Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Astonishingly enough, magellan, you’re wrong on this, too. I have no desire to look it up, nor do I care who you think has any burden on a fucking messageboard. If you have something substantive to add to the discussion, however, here I am holding my breath: :o Oh, you can hold it longer than that. Keep trying. If you fail, then you can go look up burden of proof, which is handy in a forum called Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/232 "2015-02-21T05:26:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > This is an order of magnitude apart from Brian Williams’ case: Williams’ claim was specifically and directly contradicted by someone who was there. And what, O’Reilly was contradicted by 1/10 of a person? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/233 "2015-02-21T06:23:19Z")
FWIW, [O’Reilly has now admitted that he was never in the Falklands at all…](http://nation.foxnews.com/2015/02/20/bill-oreillys-talking-points-memo-22015-airing-tonight-8pm-et) ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/234 "2015-02-21T06:25:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And where is O’Reilly’s subsequent claim that he meant a protest in Buenos Aires? See link above. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/235 "2015-02-21T13:46:51Z")
The biggest difference between Williams and O’Reilly is their reactions, I think. Williams said something to the effect of ‘I’m very sorry, I’m terribly embarrassed…’ – I don’t think O’Reilly is constitutionally capable of doing so. It would probably kill him. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/236 "2015-02-21T14:47:12Z")
As I said above, though, they’re in different businesses. Williams’s business was to report the news. When he became the news, it damaged his reputation and the service he offered. O’Reilly’s business is to entertain geezers who don’t want children on their lawns and who believe that The Kids Have No Respect These Days. His personality IS the product, and generating controversy has about a 50/50 chance of increasing his ratings. I think O’Reilly is a loathsome pustules on the ass of the media, but from a pure profit standpoint, I’m not sure that his boss should do anything about the allegations that, lo and behold, once again he’s distorting the truth to make himself look like an interesting person. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/237 "2015-02-21T15:24:48Z")
Two interesting O’Reilly quotes, for folks who inexplicably are giving him the benefit of the doubt: > [@Bill O'Reilly](#): > > I was in a situation one time, in a war zone in Argentina, in the Falklands, where my photographer got run down and then hit his head and was bleeding from the ear on the concrete. And the army was chasing us. > [@Bill O'Reilly](#): > > Nobody was on the Falklands and I never said I was on the island, ever. And yeah, I finally did the research that anyone could do if they’re curious: the original MJ article pretty conclusively demonstrates O’Reilly wasn’t there, **according to his then-bosses**. > [@](#): > > American reporters were not on the ground in this distant war zone. “Nobody got to the war zone during the Falklands war,” Susan Zirinsky, a longtime CBS News producer who helped manage the network’s coverage of the war from Buenos Aires, tells Mother Jones. She does not remember what O’Reilly did during his time in Argentina. But she notes that the military junta kept US reporters from reaching the islands: “You weren’t allowed on by the Argentinians. No CBS person got there.” > > That’s how Bob Schieffer, who was CBS News’ lead correspondent covering the Falklands war, recalls it: “Nobody from CBS got to the Falklands. I came close. We’d been trying to get somebody down there. It was impossible.” He notes that NBC News reporter Robin Lloyd was the only American network correspondent to reach the islands. “I remember because I got my butt scooped on that,” Schieffer says. “He got out there and we were all trying to get there.” (Lloyd tells Mother Jones that he managed to convince the Argentine military to let him visit Port Stanley, the capital of the Falkland Islands, but he spent only a day there—and this was weeks before the British forces arrived and the fighting began.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/238 "2015-02-21T17:38:08Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > FWIW, [O’Reilly has now admitted that he was never in the Falklands at all…](http://nation.foxnews.com/2015/02/20/bill-oreillys-talking-points-memo-22015-airing-tonight-8pm-et) There is a much bigger lie in there-- he calls himself a “humble” correspondent. Now, that’s a whopper!! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/239 "2015-02-21T22:02:31Z")
I’ve admired BW for awhile, but his repeated embellishments of his Gulf War experience have badly damaged his credibility. No matter what he says now, no matter how much time passes, this will always be something that he did - and would have kept on doing, by all indications, until he was called out on it. A network news anchor’s trustworthiness and journalistic credentials should be above reproach. I think, with regret, that NBC should can him. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/240 "2015-02-21T23:21:32Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > … And yeah, I finally did the research that anyone could do if they’re curious: the original MJ article pretty conclusively demonstrates O’Reilly wasn’t there, **according to his then-bosses**. > > > [@](#): > > > > American reporters were not on the ground in this distant war zone. “Nobody got to the war zone during the Falklands war,” Susan Zirinsky, a longtime CBS News producer who helped manage the network’s coverage of the war from Buenos Aires, tells Mother Jones. She does not remember what O’Reilly did during his time in Argentina. But she notes that the military junta kept US reporters from reaching the islands: “You weren’t allowed on by the Argentinians. No CBS person got there.” > > That’s how Bob Schieffer, who was CBS News’ lead correspondent covering the Falklands war, recalls it: “Nobody from CBS got to the Falklands. I came close. We’d been trying to get somebody down there. It was impossible.” Impossible that O’Reilly got there? Don’t be silly! One word: _ **jetpack** _. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953.md?page=13)