# Brian Williams Helicopter story: blowhard BS, but not a fireable offense **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 6, 2015, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953 "2015-02-06T07:09:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/21 "2015-02-06T15:11:34Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > … he has a faulty memory, much like Hillary and her ducking on the tarmac. Sort of like a guy who tells you “Remember when I told you I was married 12 years ago? I now recall that it was actually the wedding of a friend - I was one of the ushers.” To genuinely “misremember” whether you were or were not shot at requires some sort of significant brain defect. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/22 "2015-02-06T15:21:25Z")
Why is this even a question? He lied, significantly, and he’s works in the news industry. If I was his manager I would fire him. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/23 "2015-02-06T15:21:59Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’m not so quick to condemn. I can imagine Williams hunkered down with the soldiers and they start talking about it and one of the guys says “yeah, we took some flak on the way in” and maybe Williams got confused, thinking that he was on the same helicopter. Perhaps he heard the gunfire and thought they were hit. If this was the biggest lie of the Bush era wars, I’d be quite relieved. I also call bullshit on the “faulty memory” meme. As has been noted in the media, I think it would be pretty clear in my mind if my plane, helo etc. had be forced down due to an RPG or gunfire. This partial ownership is almost worst than no ownership at all. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/24 "2015-02-06T15:45:11Z")
I’m just catching up on this story. Did Williams tell this story on his news show? Or did he just tell it on the David Letterman show? I think there’s a different standard between what a reporter reports as news and stories he tells on a talk show. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/25 "2015-02-06T16:43:03Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’m not so quick to condemn. I can imagine Williams hunkered down with the soldiers and they start talking about it and one of the guys says “yeah, we took some flak on the way in” and maybe Williams got confused, thinking that he was on the same helicopter. Perhaps he heard the gunfire and thought they were hit. If this was the biggest lie of the Bush era wars, I’d be quite relieved. Yeah, I’m not very quick to lambast him either. I’ve had enough sleep-deprived hazy memory situations at the beginning of vacations where I’m half as many time zones away to give him a pretty wide amount of latitude as far as what he remembers. Plus, it’s in everyone’s nature to bullshit a little to make stories more funny/harrowing/entertaining. Is there really one of us who hasn’t done it one time or another? Over time, the embellishment sinks in as reality in your head, if you don’t constantly remind yourself that it’s just bullshit. (It wasn’t lies… it was… just bullshit). I mean, I have friends who embellished a story that involved something I did, for comic effect, and now the eyewitnesses AND everyone they’ve told believe the embellished version, while I remember the actual events as funny, but nearly as funny as the ones from the story, mostly because the embellishments are what make it outlandish, not the actual events and people. I’m willing to believe that Williams bullshitted a little bit when telling the original story, and it just sort of stuck and became his “official” narrative without any real intent to mislead or lie. I mean, he fessed right up when confronted; that’s not the action of someone who’s lying intentionallly. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/26 "2015-02-06T16:51:02Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > That article by the Chinook pilot includes an embedded video of the original NBC news story by Brian Williams. In it, he makes no claim of his helicopter being shot at. The video can also be seen on [Youtube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyo506gcnZ4#t=244). He clearly states that it was a helicopter not in his group which got shot. I donno if he deserves to get canned for that, but he really should have researched his previous statements before offering the misleading apology. That should have been a no-brainer and they could have just had one of their fact-checkers quickly look into it. Please, please tell me that NBC has fact-checkers. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/27 "2015-02-06T17:07:27Z")
> [@CGav8r](#): > > The pilot of the helicopter Williams was in says that they \*were \*part of the formation where the helo in front of them took an RPG, and he also indicated that all three helos in the formation did take small arms fire and evasive maneuvers. [CNN now reports](http://money.cnn.com/2015/02/06/media/stelter-iraq-pilots/index.html) that that pilot (Richard Krell, who the other pilots say was not flying the Chinook that Brian Williams was in) is no longer standing by his story, saying “the information I gave you was true based on my memories, but at this point I am questioning my memories.” > [@Brian Stelter](#): > > Bottom line: this pilot is revising his story - and, because of that, I’m revising mine. > What initially looked like an account that supported some of Brian Williams’ war story – that he came “under fire” that day – no longer appears to be true. I don’t think Williams is still claiming he came under fire, either. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/28 "2015-02-06T17:17:49Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Plus, it’s in everyone’s nature to bullshit a little to make stories more funny/harrowing/entertaining. Is there really one of us who hasn’t done it one time or another? You think the same standards should apply to what buddies say over a couple of beers and what the head of a national news organization says publicly? ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/29 "2015-02-06T17:21:01Z")
The lie, by itself, i do not consider a fireable offense. The cumulative effect of many viewers such as me that would no longer trust him on any news is for the execs at NBC to judge, not me. Now, at mid day, i am reading that there are now other greatly embellished comments. Put a string of these together and my no turns to a yes. > [@magellan01](#): > > I wish the blowhard no ill will, except that he deserves to be so embarrassed for a time that he wouldn’t want to show his face in public. But your answer to your third questions does suggest that the answer to your second question should be “yes”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/30 "2015-02-06T17:22:03Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > There is an interesting report that Tom Brokaw wants him fired, … Tom Brokaw is a mendacious idiot of Brokawian proportions. That doesn’t mean that he isn’t right this time. A stopped watch is correct twice a day, and I presume that he correctly conveyed his sandwich order for the other time. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/31 "2015-02-06T17:25:14Z")
Does anybody actually think news anchors are trustworthy? They’re paid personalities, just like Lady Gaga and Shrek. The guys on camera aren’t reporters or journalists, despite their pretenses. They just read what the teleprompter says. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/32 "2015-02-06T17:25:44Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Tom Brokaw is a mendacious idiot of Brokawian proportions. That doesn’t mean that he isn’t right this time. A stopped watch is correct twice a day, and I presume that he correctly conveyed his sandwich order for the other time. Latest I hear is that he denies wanting Williams sacked. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/33 "2015-02-06T17:27:10Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > …much like Hillary and her ducking on the tarmac. I’ve seen articles noting that NBC News has been repeatedly critical of HRC over that story, and wondering whether it will be similarly harsh on its own guy. One does have to wonder where NBC News has been on this story. Your managing editor and most popular public figure has been saying for years that his helicopter got hit by an RPG in wartime, and you’ve never thought that story was interesting enough to follow up on? No one ever said, “That would be a great story to interview him about on Dateline”? My guess is that they will have difficulty taking adverse action against Williams because that would expose their own knowledge of events to scrutiny. ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/34 "2015-02-06T17:31:41Z")
He should get a promotion or a position in the current administration. Well done. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/35 "2015-02-06T17:58:53Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > Blowhard BS. Yes > Fireable offense. No > Consider him a trustworthy source for news. No Considering his job is to deliver news, I don’t know how you can reconcile the second and third points. The real question for NBC is whether people will still watch. I suspect their ratings won’t take much, if any, hit because of this. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/36 "2015-02-06T18:01:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m just catching up on this story. Did Williams tell this story on his news show? Or did he just tell it on the David Letterman show? I think there’s a different standard between what a reporter reports as news and stories he tells on a talk show. He told the story on the news, got called out by some military folks who knew better and then apologized shortly after. The Letterman video just shows he has a history of telling the wrong version of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/37 "2015-02-06T18:45:10Z")
ISTM people who are outraged over “Lyin’ Brian’s” supposed fabrication must believe one of the following: 1. The (well-documented) phenomenon of “false memories” is bogus 2. False memories are a thing, but not applicable in this case 3. Brian Williams had a false memory, but it’s inadmissible for a newscaster to fall prey to this quirk of the human psyche. Which is it? Seems to me he’s being treated rather unfairly. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/38 "2015-02-06T19:07:39Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > ISTM people who are outraged over “Lyin’ Brian’s” supposed fabrication must believe one of the following: > > 1. The (well-documented) phenomenon of “false memories” is bogus > 2. False memories are a thing, but not applicable in this case > 3. Brian Williams had a false memory, but it’s inadmissible for a newscaster to fall prey to this quirk of the human psyche. > > Which is it? Seems to me he’s being treated rather unfairly. It’s clearly #2. Come on, do you think the (well-documented) phenomenon of “lying” is bogus?? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/39 "2015-02-06T19:25:49Z")
Wait, why is it clear that he was lying instead of false remembering? It seems to me that this claim rests on the notion that no one ever falsely remembers something traumatic like being shot at. But, of course, the whole phenomenon of false memories is mostly focused on false memories of traumatic incidents. If what happened here is that Williams flew in on a helicopter shortly after this incident that also took evasive maneuvers, and he saw the shot up helicopter when he landed, and he was generally scared during the whole encounter, I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to say he could have falsely remembered it as himself being in the helicopter. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953/40 "2015-02-06T19:26:56Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Does anybody actually think news anchors are trustworthy? They’re paid personalities, just like Lady Gaga and Shrek. The guys on camera aren’t reporters or journalists, despite their pretenses. They just read what the teleprompter says. Williams is the Managing Editor, not just the anchor. Managing editors run the day to day operations, manage staff and have a lot of say of what stories are to be reported. > [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > …I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to say he could have falsely remembered it as himself being in the helicopter. I’ve read people saying that if he embellished the memories in his own mind then over the years those embellishments may come to replace the actual facts of the incident. Still, is that what you want from the person who is supposed to only be telling you facts? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brian-williams-helicopter-story-blowhard-bs-but-not-a-fireable-offense/711953.md?page=3)