# Bribing the Enemy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 20, 2008, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bribing-the-enemy/442041 "2008-03-20T05:32:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crocodiles_And_Boulevards)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bribing-the-enemy/442041/1 "2008-03-20T05:32:08Z")
I’m sure I’ve seen references to this before, but this was the first time I’ve seen it in on a website I’m willing to call reliable. Not that CNN is the peaches and cream of news outlets, but I feel like I can trust at least most of the factual statements they make 😉 What am I referring to? This article, [Surge or Splurge?](http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/19/pentagon.surge/index.html). According to this article, part of the reason the Surge is working so well is because the government is paying relatively huge sums of money to former “insurgents” and other militants for temporary peace and policing. Does anyone have any other information or cites to corroborate this? And, if this is indeed true, do you think that this is a winning strategy for the crisis in Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bribing-the-enemy/442041/2 "2008-03-20T05:50:35Z")
Absolutely. its an undeniable fact that a huge part of success attributed to “the surge” has in fact been acheived the bribing Sunni terrorists to stop attacking us and attack Al Qiada insteed, both with money and by offering amnesty. The Sunni terrorists haven’t laid down thier arms or renounced violence > [@](#): > > On a recent Friday morning in west Baghdad, 20 of Hajji Abu Abed’s men were shifting their feet nervously in the dusty yard outside his house as they waited for their leader to emerge. > The men, young and well armed with Kalashnikovs, pistols and hand grenades, were wearing the favoured dress for militiamen in Iraq these days: green camouflage commando uniforms decorated with bits of US army kit - a pouch on one man, webbing on another, a cap here, sunglasses there, a few flak jackets between them. Some bore the insignia of Iraqi army officers. > > Around noon, a fighter came running from the large house across the street and shouted: “The Hajji is coming!” > > A pick-up truck came speeding into the yard, followed by several saloon cars packed with fighters. In the back of the pick-up, a man with a bandanna swung a big machine gun on its mounting. The great iron gate opened and Hajji Abu Abed emerged - a squat, chubby fellow with close-cropped hair and a thin goatee and moustache. Half his face was covered with large wraparound sunglasses, a pistol was tucked into his belt and a short machine gun dangled in his hand. Three guards ran in front of him and jumped into a new Toyota saloon. With sirens wailing and men brandishing their guns in the air, the convoy drove the 50 metres from Hajji Abu Abed’s house to his headquarters. > > Abu Abed, a member of the insurgent Islamic Army, has recently become the commander of the US-sponsored “Ameriya Knights”. He is one of the new breed of Sunni warlords who are being paid by the US to fight al-Qaida in Iraq. The Americans call their new allies Concerned Citizens. > . > . > **The Americans pay him $400 (£200) a month for each fighter he provides, he said, and he had 600 registered. His men are awed by his courage, his piety and his neurotic rages.** > > Like many other insurgent groups, the Islamic Army had an uneasy alliance with al-Qaida. On one hand they needed financial support; on the other, al-Qaida became a burden, bringing upon the Sunnis the wrath of Shia militias and death squads who started an organised campaign of sectarian cleansing against the Sunnis in retaliation against al-Qaida’s mass killing of Shia . [http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,331225411-110878,00.html](http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,331225411-110878,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bribing-the-enemy/442041/3 "2008-03-20T05:58:39Z")
A real good deal for someone, just not sure its us. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bribing-the-enemy/442041/4 "2008-03-20T06:26:23Z")
Got a feeling we’re just about to neutralize a major Al Queda operative, maybe the #3 guy… ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bribing-the-enemy/442041/5 "2008-03-20T07:20:12Z")
The real question is, who miscalculated this situation in such a way that it was thought that fighting these people was easier than buying them off. Hell, I think we could have easily controlled Sadaam if we gave him $12 billion a month. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bribing-the-enemy/442041/6 "2008-03-20T07:46:54Z")
Hasn’t the Pentagon heard about Paypal? Sure they charge a fee, but if we could save a few hundred lives, it might be worth looking into. How will our bribes be affected if the value of the dollar continues to drop? Do we have ships big enough to carry that much money? Will our gold reserves be moved to the new embassy in Iraq? Is it really Fort Knox East? Ten months and counting… ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bribing-the-enemy/442041/7 "2008-03-20T09:18:38Z")
It’s certainly true. The great victory the Leader is trumpeting is the same great victory Sardinian business owners achieve when they pay off the month’s protection money. USA, USA. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bribing-the-enemy/442041/8 "2008-03-20T13:50:03Z")
It’s an old tactic. Bribe one enemy to fight another, hire mercenaries, divide your enemies, get a “friend” to open the gates in exchange for a hundred ounces of gold. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bribing-the-enemy/442041/9 "2008-03-20T14:31:47Z")
Rates sure have gone up since the twelve pieces of silver days, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bribing-the-enemy/442041/10 "2008-03-20T17:27:09Z")
I am very much against the war, but I’m not sure what, in the context of a war, is necessarily _wrong_ with paying a one-time enemy to fight along side you. If it’s an effective way to get them to stop fighting us, while at the same time fighting other enemies, then maybe it’s a good thing. That’s a maybe. I am far from a military expert. I can just see that it might be an alternative method of ‘winning’ a war to killing every last enemy. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bribing-the-enemy/442041/11 "2008-03-20T22:10:56Z")
In the years when Henry Kissinger was Sec. of State, it always seemed to me that his peace negotiations were merely a matter of throwing around truckloads of money. It worked very well, and the warring parties didn’t run out of money until the next guy was Sec. of State. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bribing-the-enemy/442041/12 "2008-03-20T23:02:35Z")
A lot of these insurgent groups have/had power because the United States presence in Iraq was doing nothing whatsoever to make life safer for ordinary Iraqis. Prior to Petraeus a lot of our focus was on keeping our units bottled up in well-fortified areas and sending them out periodically on “missions.” The problem is, that makes it seem like we’re not really interested in what is happening to the ordinary Iraqis (and maybe Bush and the military brass wasn’t worried about that), when you just come out of your fortresses to kill some insurgents and then roll back into them–leaving the Iraqis in the street unprotected. This is why Moqtada al-Sadr’s Mahdi militia became so powerful. The Mahdi militia was basically operating as a state within a state. They were providing the security we weren’t providing. Many of the people who were effectively under Sadr’s rule didn’t like his harsh Islamic law and the many death penalties his “legal system” handed out. But, their choice was between him and us. He was providing them with street-level protection and we weren’t really trying to protect them at all. Now that we have been aggressively policing the population instead of just trying to chase insurgents all over the country side, Sadr is broken. Just recently he announced that he has _failed_ to establish an Islamic state in Iraq. This is a guy who, in 2006, was arguably the most powerful warlord in Iraq, one who came very close to establishing his own state. Where this brings paying the former insurgent groups off is, while they are fighting al-Qaeda _we_ are providing more security presence to the Iraqis than ever before. So assuming at some point al-Qaeda in Iraq is truly gone and broken, when these militia groups come back, the Iraqis (ideally) won’t turn to them for protection because they will no longer _need_ protection. This may lead to some of these insurgent groups attempting to take arms against the state even more–but again, if Iraqis view _them_ as the reason for the security problem they will turn on them. Without the support of a local population it is almost impossible for an insurgency to sustain itself. Look at really effective terrorist/insurgent/revolutionary (whatever term fits) groups, the IRA, ETA, the Mahdi militia (prior to recently), they were effective because they had a large population they could hide in and that was willing to protect them. Now, look at the Ku Klux Klan. At one point it was very effective, it had strong support throughout the Southern states from southerners and their governments. Local police departments wouldn’t seriously try to investigate their crimes–if they did, juries wouldn’t convict their members. The KKK is more or less broken as an organization now because pretty much any jury of southerners _would_ probably convict them. They no longer have the support of the population and cannot survive. This is like many of the militia/survivalist movements in the United States, they’ve never gotten much traction because they only have the support of a very small fringe–without any support from the population at large they are easily monitored, caught, and kept under wraps. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bribing-the-enemy/442041/13 "2008-03-20T23:46:16Z")
For an interesting perspective, read this book: [http://www.amazon.com/Power-Faith-Fantasy-America-Present/dp/0393330303/ref=pd\_bbs\_sr\_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206056430&sr=8-1](http://www.amazon.com/Power-Faith-Fantasy-America-Present/dp/0393330303/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206056430&sr=8-1) America has been alternatively bribing and fighting troublesome middle easterners (or north africans) since there _was_ an America. See: Barbary corsairs. Indeed, the very historical foundations of American naval power relate to the corsair menace - and the debate over whether it was better to bribe or fight (or some mix of both) is one going back hundreds of years. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bribing-the-enemy/442041/14 "2008-03-21T23:05:42Z")
This just in, from our “What the Fuck Is the _Matter_ with You People!” desk… > **[Sunni militia strike could derail US strategy against al-Qaida](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/mar/21/iraq.alqaida)** > > Fighters accuse the US military of using them to clear al-Qaida militants from dangerous areas and then abandoning them **Sunni militia strike could derail US strategy against al-Qaida** > [@](#): > > Leading members of the 80,000-strong Sahwa, or awakening, councils have said they will stop fighting unless payment of their $10 a day (£5) wage is resumed. The fighters are accusing the US military of using them to clear al-Qaida militants from dangerous areas and then abandoning them. > > A telephone survey by GuardianFilms for Channel 4 News reveals that out of 49 Sahwa councils four with more than 1,400 men have already quit, 38 are threatening to go on strike and two already have… ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2008, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bribing-the-enemy/442041/15 "2008-03-22T15:01:31Z")
Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bribing-the-enemy/442041/16 "2008-03-24T16:16:36Z")
[QUOTE=smiling bandit] It’s an old tactic. Bribe one enemy to fight another, hire mercenaries, divide your enemies, get a “friend” to open the gates in exchange for a hundred ounces of gold. [/QUOTE] Another and even simpler old tactic, of course, is known as [“Paying the Dane-geld.”](http://whitewolf.newcastle.edu.au/words/authors/K/KiplingRudyard/verse/english_history/danegeld.html) But you never get rid of the Dane. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bribing-the-enemy/442041/17 "2008-03-24T18:24:58Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] This just in, from our “What the Fuck Is the _Matter_ with You People!” desk… - Sunni militia employed by the US to fight al-Qaida are warning of a national strike **because they are not being paid regularly**. \* [/QUOTE] And the one universal, absolutely undeniable, lesson from history is that the REAL problems begin, not when you START paying the Danes (or Huns, or Tartars, or Numidians. etc.). But when you STOP paying them. ---
**Author:** ![Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crocodiles_And_Boulevards)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bribing-the-enemy/442041/18 "2008-03-25T01:25:14Z")
[QUOTE=griffin1977] And the one universal, absolutely undeniable, lesson from history is that the REAL problems begin, not when you START paying the Danes (or Huns, or Tartars, or Numidians. etc.). But when you STOP paying them. [/QUOTE] Considering how much we’re paying them, would it be strategically/economically feasible to simply continue the practice and reduce our own (presumably more expensive) security presence?