# brickbacon, sorry, you are a bigot **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 15, 2008, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brickbacon-sorry-you-are-a-bigot/477201 "2008-12-15T03:59:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brickbacon-sorry-you-are-a-bigot/477201/1 "2008-12-15T03:59:55Z")
From [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=497000). Basically, to make a long story short, **brickbacon** (among others), is upset that the struggle for the rights of gays is being compared to that of blacks during the Civil Rights movement. Some of his statements are downright insulting: > [@](#): > > Can you name some of them? I’m guessing you have two bullets in your arsenal- marriage and the DADT. It’s debatable whether either situation is stripping anyone of their rights. > [@](#): > > think you have misunderstood me. I personally have no problem with gay people. I had a friend stay at my house with his boyfriend this past week. I have and will continue to advocate for gay issues whenever I can. But, I don’t think the longevity or severity of discrimination against gay people, evil as it is, warrants a comparison to that of African-Americans. It’s a particularly ineffective tactic because the reality is that the Gay rights movement is not beholden to or thankful for the civil rights movement. They are are trying to get theirs. That’s fine by me since they are entitled to all that and more, but the comparison is not a principled stance, it’s a tactic to further their position. It’s an appeal to emotion. That’s why you didn’t see too many gay people advocating for civil rights when it was happening, and that why you don’t see gay groups advocating Black or modern civil rights issues now. > [@](#): > > That’s not what you said. You said gay people were stripped of their rights. Aside from your first example, which is valid but still ongoing, gays had neither of the “rights” you mentioned. It’s debatable whether serving in the military and getting married are traditional “rights” in the first place. > [@](#): > > So yes, there were plenty of people out and protesting for gay rights, which is very admirable. They co-opted many of the strategies the Black civil rights movement employed, yet they did not feel the compunction to meaningfully pitch in to their struggle. They are well within their rights to do so, but don’t surprised when Black people take offense today they attempt to use their brand name. And: > [@](#): > > No, I’m saying you don’t belittle the struggles of others to make a catchy, inartful slogan. The Civil Rights struggle, like the Holocaust is almost like a brand name at this point. When you are attempting to brand your own product by using and appealing to the good will and sentiment another brand arouses, you should make a greater effort to make sure your brand is stable and the comparison is valid. There is room for hundreds of different colas in the market, but the is only one Coke. You should realize that if you call yourself Coke, or market your product as the “new” Coke, the original Coke people are gonna be pissed off. Your argument is well how is Coke hurt if everyone drinks more soda, and is fat and happy. The problem is that it diminishes the Coke brand, and they have every right to be upset by that. So basically, if anyone other than a black and/or Jewish individual talks about civil rights, it’s somehow a copyright violation, that marriage isn’t really a right, so it’s not a huge deal? And so even though gays are terribly discriminated against, seen as perverts, told they’re going to hell, prevented from being with those they love, kicked out of their homes, forbidden from having children, how DARE they compare their struggles against that of others who had their rights denied to them? Dude, get the fuck over yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brickbacon-sorry-you-are-a-bigot/477201/2 "2008-12-15T04:10:16Z")
Guin, why don’t you respond to the actual substance of what brickbacon is saying instead of just satirizing one little aspect of what he said? MHO is that you are not intellectually able to form a coherent argument against his positions (assuming you are able to understand them in the first place), and the OP of this thread proves this beyond a reasonable doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brickbacon-sorry-you-are-a-bigot/477201/3 "2008-12-15T04:16:41Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Some of his statements are downright insulting: In what way? He’s shown his reasoning. What’s yours? > [@Guinastasia](#): > > So basically, if anyone other than a black and/or Jewish individual talks about civil rights, it’s somehow a copyright violation, that marriage isn’t really a right, so it’s not a huge deal? That’s now what he said. He didn’t say it was a copyright violation. He did note that it’s an appeal to emotion as you’re doing here that’s not terribly effective, unless one is prone to appeals to emotion. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > And so even though gays are terribly discriminated against, seen as perverts, told they’re going to hell, prevented from being with those they love, kicked out of their homes, forbidden from having children, how DARE they compare their struggles against that of others who had their rights denied to them? They can compare their struggles to anyone they want. Heck, _you_ can compare your struggles to the plight of African Americans in history if you choose. I’m just not sure it’s terribly persuasive. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brickbacon-sorry-you-are-a-bigot/477201/4 "2008-12-15T04:38:59Z")
Oh wait. I just went back and read the thread. **brickbacon** insulted YOU, not gays, because YOU didn’t have a point. You were then warned not to call anyone a bigot in GD and responded with this: > [@"Is Gay the New Black?"](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-gay-the-new-black/476693/78): > > I’m sorry, **tom**. I never thought of “bigot” as an insult-type insult, more like “liar”. Perhaps I should start a Pit thread? So you’re not insulting **brickbacon**. Got it. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brickbacon-sorry-you-are-a-bigot/477201/5 "2008-12-15T05:04:53Z")
Have you EVER had a Pitting go well? Ever? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brickbacon-sorry-you-are-a-bigot/477201/6 "2008-12-15T05:32:15Z")
I just read that thread and I’m glad that I did because it was interesting. Calling **brickbacon** a bigot is totally ridiculous and unjustified. We get it, **Guin** , you’re liberal and entirely open minded and get all outraged over the right things. Thanks for that. You might be more effective for the “cause” if you could try to form a coherent argument in a debate instead of getting all huffy when you’re bested. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_The\_Diver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Buck\_The\_Diver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_The_Diver)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brickbacon-sorry-you-are-a-bigot/477201/7 "2008-12-15T05:33:11Z")
> [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](#): > > Have you EVER had a Pitting go well? > > Ever? It’s fun to watch her try, though. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brickbacon-sorry-you-are-a-bigot/477201/8 "2008-12-15T05:49:27Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Dude, get the fuck over yourself. If, perchance, you have a mirror, read this to yourself—with feeling. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brickbacon-sorry-you-are-a-bigot/477201/9 "2008-12-15T06:03:16Z")
**Guinastasia** , your positions in that debate were poorly presented and inartfully argued. Your opponent presented a clear, concise, and compelling argument, and this thread demonstrates your apparent inability to understand it. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brickbacon-sorry-you-are-a-bigot/477201/10 "2008-12-15T07:04:23Z")
I have to admit I just skimmed the thread, and I don’t really care about whether the LGBT movement can be accurately compared to the civil rights movement. But I did notice this: > [@brickbacon](#): > > The struggle for civil rights is not over, yet I don’t see many gay people advocating for anything other than gay rights. I don’t know about bigotry, but that comment is at least extremely ignorant. I have personally worked with, or know people working at many of the leading race-focused civil rights organizations in the country (NAACP, SPLC, ACLU RJP, etc.) and there are dozens of gay men and women working for these organizations. Ditto regional organizations in Newark and NYC. Even outside the civil rights leadership, in my experience, the gay community is _more_ likely to be active in race-related civil rights work than the population as a whole. This is not surprising, given the LGBT community’s more acute awareness of social injustice. Perhaps nothing more should be read into this than **brickbacon** ’s ignorance on the subject. But it’s easy to read the comment as **brickbacon** calling the gay community selfish, or insular. That kind of sentiment would be pretty close to bigotry, given the actual facts. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brickbacon-sorry-you-are-a-bigot/477201/11 "2008-12-15T07:11:44Z")
The fact **Guinastasia** can’t argue to save her life doesn’t make **brickbacon** any less of a bigot. His comment about gays only working for ‘gay rights’ as opposed to ‘civil rights’ is particularly telling: He either doesn’t realize that fighting one campaign aids the whole war, or (more likely) refuses to see the gay rights campaign as part of the war to defend civil rights. That is a position that makes you a bigot. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brickbacon-sorry-you-are-a-bigot/477201/12 "2008-12-15T07:15:23Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Even outside the civil rights leadership, in my experience, the gay community is _more_ likely to be active in race-related civil rights work than the population as a whole. This is not surprising, given the LGBT community’s more acute awareness of social injustice. Could we get some cites on this? It’s not that I don’t believe you or think that your experience doesn’t count. But it would help to combat ignorance to have more factual evidence than anecdotes, especially if you’re going to charge bigotry based on that ignorance. Your experience could be countered by someone who has had the opposite experience. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brickbacon-sorry-you-are-a-bigot/477201/13 "2008-12-15T07:30:34Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > Could we get some cites on this? It’s not that I don’t believe you or think that your experience doesn’t count. But it would help to combat ignorance to have more factual evidence than anecdotes, especially if you’re going to charge bigotry based on that ignorance. Your experience could be countered by someone who has had the opposite experience. You want me to cite that there are lots of gay people working on race issues? Seriously? You want, like, Facebook profiles or what? I mean, I understand your skepticism of anecdotal information. It is the internet after all. But, really, how could I possible prove that other than by offering my experience. I tell you what. If someone with similar experience comes in and offers conflicting testimony, I’ll retract my claim of ignorance. Cool? ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brickbacon-sorry-you-are-a-bigot/477201/14 "2008-12-15T08:23:58Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > You want me to cite that there are lots of gay people working on race issues? Seriously? You want, like, Facebook profiles or what? You can’t think of any statistics that would show this fact? But yet you’re claiming that someone else is ignorant for not knowing what your experiences are on the subject? > [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I mean, I understand your skepticism of anecdotal information. It is the internet after all. But, really, how could I possible prove that other than by offering my experience. I tell you what. If someone with similar experience comes in and offers conflicting testimony, I’ll retract my claim of ignorance. Cool? That’s easy. . . **brickbacon**. He obviously doesn’t share your conclusions from his experiences. So now you have his experiences versus yours. I don’t know what you mean by similar experiences though. I can, however, give you some evidence that refutes your reasoning (below) that brought you to your conclusion here: > [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Even outside the civil rights leadership, in my experience, the gay community is _more_ likely to be active in race-related civil rights work than the population as a whole. This is not surprising, given the LGBT community’s more acute awareness of social injustice. We’ll have to jump through a few IFs before we do. But I’m sure you’ll have no problem with them. **IF** you consider gay marriage to be a civil right and **IF** prop. 8 was about gay marriage and **IF** you believe exit polls and **IF** California is representative of the US population on this issue, then it’s not true that people who have suffered social injustice work in solidarity based on that common experience. > [@](#): > > Although many of the state’s black political leaders spoke out against Proposition 8, an exit poll of California voters showed that black voters favored the measure by a ratio of more than 2 to 1. [Article](http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-gayblack8-2008nov08,0,1601616.story) African Americans voted yes on 8 in a ratio of 2 to 1. If this was an issue of social injustice, African Americans either didn’t see it that way or didn’t vote in solidarity to it. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brickbacon-sorry-you-are-a-bigot/477201/15 "2008-12-15T08:40:13Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > You can’t think of any statistics that would show this fact? But yet you’re claiming that someone else is ignorant for not knowing what your experiences are on the subject? You think someone is out there gathering statistics on gay employment at civil rights organizations? That really seems plausible to you? And, keep in mind, this was his assertion. I’m claiming he is ignorant because his assertion is wrong. When you refer to “my experience” we’re not talking about a religious experience I had that is purely subjective. I’m making factual claims. They are either true or false. If someone told me China was overrun by polar bears, and I called him ignorant based on my travels through China, it would be a slim defense to say that I’m merely “claiming that someone else is ignorant for not knowing what my experiences are on the subject.” > [@Heffalump and Roo](#): > > That’s easy. . . **brickbacon**. He obviously doesn’t share your conclusions from his experiences. So now you have his experiences versus yours. What is **brickbacon** ’s experience in the contemporary civil rights movement? > [@Heffalump and Roo](#): > > African Americans voted yes on 8 in a ratio of 2 to 1. If this was an issue of social injustice, African Americans either didn’t see it that way or didn’t vote in solidarity to it. There’s a lot to unpack there, but let’s leave it at this: the fact that black people voted for Prop 8 says absolutely nothing about whether gay people are involved in civil rights. I was not claiming that a common sense of injustice leads all oppressed people to join hands and sing kumbaya. I was claiming that the gay community is disproportionately represented in social activism, including race issues. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brickbacon-sorry-you-are-a-bigot/477201/16 "2008-12-15T09:01:29Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Basically, to make a long story short, brickbacon (among others), is upset that the struggle for the rights of gays is being compared to that of blacks during the Civil Rights movement. Some of his statements are downright insulting: Speaking as a cocksucker, I don’t find anything **brickbacon** said in that thread to be insulting. I don’t agree with his position in the slightest, but there’s absolutely nothing in it to support a claim of bigotry ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brickbacon-sorry-you-are-a-bigot/477201/17 "2008-12-15T12:57:32Z")
perhaps if you want to take the original interpretation of the word that the has his ideas and will steadfastly stick to them irrespective of what evidence is presented to him, then yes, he could be called a bigot. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brickbacon-sorry-you-are-a-bigot/477201/18 "2008-12-15T13:33:22Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Speaking as a cocksucker, I don’t find anything **brickbacon** said in that thread to be insulting. I don’t agree with his position in the slightest, but there’s absolutely nothing in it to support a claim of bigotry Maybe not insulting, but some of it was vaguely ridiculous. For instance, claiming that gays were ungrateful towards black people, yet self-interestedly co-opted their methods used during the Civil Rights movement without using the proper footnotes, and that’s part of the reason why “gay is the new black” isn’t OK. Clearly the converse is true, that blacks aren’t helping gays out with their civil rights movement, and weren’t there to help them out during Stonewall etc., but that apparently is gay people’s fault because of their lesser level of oppression and their lack of thanks towards blacks. [From here:](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10563997&postcount=59) > [@brickbacon](#): > > So yes, there were plenty of people out and protesting for gay rights, which is very admirable. They co-opted many of the strategies the Black civil rights movement employed, yet they did not feel the compunction to meaningfully pitch in to their struggle. They are well within their rights to do so, but don’t surprised when Black people take offense today they attempt to use their brand name. Seems like a ridiculous reason to vote to strip people of rights ala Prop 8, but this the reasoning he used. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brickbacon-sorry-you-are-a-bigot/477201/19 "2008-12-15T13:35:42Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Seems like a ridiculous reason to vote to strip people of rights ala Prop 8, but this the reasoning he used. I just realized that in this particular case, the argument that there is no right to be stripped is not only morally wrong but legally wrong as well. Prop 8 _did_ strip away a right. Unless of course you think that that right doesn’t exist for heteros, either. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brickbacon-sorry-you-are-a-bigot/477201/20 "2008-12-15T15:04:18Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Speaking as a cocksucker, I don’t find anything **brickbacon** said in that thread to be insulting. I don’t agree with his position in the slightest, but there’s absolutely nothing in it to support a claim of bigotry What he said, minus the cocksucker part. Not being allowed to marry is not quite the same thing as not being allowed to vote or enter most buildings or make eye contact. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brickbacon-sorry-you-are-a-bigot/477201.md?page=2)