# Bricker fooled me for too long **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 12, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-fooled-me-for-too-long/640835 "2012-11-12T22:46:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-fooled-me-for-too-long/640835/181 "2012-11-14T03:01:55Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > How many lives were put at risk by Pat B’s stupidity? I don’t know. How many? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-fooled-me-for-too-long/640835/182 "2012-11-14T03:41:17Z")
Let me break this down a little for you. Accusing Pat B of being a jerk, a racist and/or a galactic asshole is of little consequence, whether it is true or not. Accusing people of putting other people’s lives and well-being at risk over some union jurisdictional dispute is an accusation of some gravity. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-fooled-me-for-too-long/640835/183 "2012-11-14T04:03:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > How many lives were put at risk by Pat B’s stupidity?.. Those horrendous cover versions of soul music he did nearly killed me! Og knows how many brain cells have died across America as a result. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-fooled-me-for-too-long/640835/184 "2012-11-14T04:11:48Z")
Pat Buchanan? Who was so dreadfully slandered by my comrades? The equivalence? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-fooled-me-for-too-long/640835/185 "2012-11-14T04:12:21Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Let me break this down a little for you. Accusing Pat B of being a jerk, a racist and/or a galactic asshole is of little consequence, whether it is true or not. Accusing people of putting other people’s lives and well-being at risk over some union jurisdictional dispute is an accusation of some gravity. I agree. So, how many? You are the one who asked the question. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-fooled-me-for-too-long/640835/186 "2012-11-14T04:21:50Z")
As Eugene V. Debs is my witness, **John** , I don’t know whether my meaning is unclear to you or you simply wish to annoy me. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-fooled-me-for-too-long/640835/187 "2012-11-14T04:30:30Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > What evidence do you offer for this ridiculous claim? A lot of what’s going on is that weak-sauce evidence is brought up for it, and the weak-sauce evidence gets attacked as low-hanging fruit, to mix my metaphors. > > If you ask me, of course folks tend to react differently to those they agree with than to those they disagree with. That’s probably the first time I’ve said so on this thread, but only because it’s such a foolish thing to even be talking about. > > **Bricker** , I wanna come back to your asking me about Stickler’s quote. That question is part of the problem. > > I asked you about Rand’s stupid claim because you posted what appeared to be a Socratic defense of it. Until you did that, you had no responsibility for his words, and it would have been ridiculous for me to ask you to take a stand on them. The mere fact that you and he both ticked the same box in the polling booth in no way obligates you to defend his stupidity. > > But you asked me to take a stance on Inner Stickler’s post, even though I’d said nothing about it up to that point. That’s ridiculous. There’s no collective responsibility for words. Stickler is responsible for what he (?) says; I’m responsible for what I say. > > If you spent more time taking responsibility for your words, and less time trying to make Jim and Sarah responsible for Alice and John’s words, there’d be no problem here. Wait—what is my "stupid claim " exactly? I just want to see what you think I’m saying. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-fooled-me-for-too-long/640835/188 "2012-11-14T04:51:03Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > As Eugene V. Debs is my witness, **John** , I don’t know whether my meaning is unclear to you or you simply wish to annoy me. John is unable to hear a slight against a conservative without jumping to the defense. Conservatism was his first love you see. He’s moved on, but every once in a while he drives past her house when the lights are on and lingers a moment to watch the blurred shapes and occasional movement behind the drapes. He’s moved on, but he’s not gonna listen to someone else bad mouth her. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-fooled-me-for-too-long/640835/189 "2012-11-14T06:20:26Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I will tell you that leftist posters treated Bricker differently because he > > 1. Posted in the Pit (I think), > 2. Stuck to the claim after it was shown to be unsubstantiated, and > 3. Used it to claim that large swaths of people were behaving in a despicably partisan manner in a time that cried out for non-partisanship. Pretty sure it was put into the Pit after the fact. [Ah, yes. Here’s **Marley23** ’s post notifying us of that action.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15655509&postcount=25) ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-fooled-me-for-too-long/640835/190 "2012-11-14T11:14:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I agree. So, how many? You are the one who asked the question. Approximately 0, I think is **elucidator’s** argument. Do you contend otherwise? I’m truly intrigued to hear why, and to find out why you’re busting to pursue this so hard. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-fooled-me-for-too-long/640835/191 "2012-11-14T11:55:24Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Wait—what is my "stupid claim " exactly? I just want to see what you think I’m saying. Here: > [@you](#): > > the majority of SDMB posters . . . see themselves as fair and impartial adjudicators of truth ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-fooled-me-for-too-long/640835/192 "2012-11-14T12:54:50Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > As Eugene V. Debs is my witness, **John** , I don’t know whether my meaning is unclear to you or you simply wish to annoy me. Your meaning was unclear, but it was reading comprehension on my part. I blame it on too much sun here in CA. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-fooled-me-for-too-long/640835/193 "2012-11-14T13:50:41Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Here, let’s make it simple: does anyone in this entire thread believe that if, some day, two issues came up at the same time, one on each side of the aisle, which were LITERALLY IDENTICAL IN ALL WAYS except that one reflected badly on liberals and one on conservatives, and two threads were started, one about each issue, one started by Bricker, and one started by some random liberal poster; that the SDMB is such a preposterously even-handed and objective and reality-based community that the two threads would receive PRECISELY the same number of posts with PRECISELY the same level of emotion? Anyone? Is anyone going to make that claim? This is a situation that most of these posters would avoid having to deal with. As someone (I think you) observed earlier, there are never two situations that are PRECISELY alike, and someone who wanted to treat the people differently will always find some distinctions to hang their hats on. Even if some people would admit in theory that they might treat Bricker differently, that’s in some theoretical and irrelevant situation that we’re not discussing. In \*this case \*they will always find some other justification, and “we’re talking about _this case_”. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > If you conclude from that story that I deny that leftist posters would have treated him differently because he is conservative, well, we’re back to the situation with the immortal cat. Did you happen to notice that I used the term “very vested in arguing …”. Do you know what that means? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-fooled-me-for-too-long/640835/194 "2012-11-14T14:25:15Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > That’s not lack of Doper “friendliness” causing that skew, AFAICT: that’s self-selection by a lot of people who are not very tolerant of non-traditional beliefs/lifestyles and/or not very comfortable with intellectual rigor. I agree that it’s indeed lamentable that we don’t have more of the sensible conservatives like you on this board, but I don’t think most of it is the board’s fault. FWIW, I think there are more conservative-ish members here than people suspect, but most of us don’t chime in on political subjects because at least to me, the majority of posters in that thread are itching to tear you a new one and tell you how stupid you are, without necessarily reading or listening to what you’re saying. If someone comes on here and says something half-cocked that’s left-leaning and vaguely progressive, few people will jump all over them and become borderline abusive and snarky, but if you come in and say something that’s reasonable, but not necessarily the board party line, you’d damn well better have your ducks in a row and have your rhetorical knives sharpened, because you’re about to get ganged up on by multiple people. That’s why I think there are few conservative posters- the ones who do, are the ones who like fighting, like **Bricker**. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-fooled-me-for-too-long/640835/195 "2012-11-14T15:10:02Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Did you happen to notice that I used the term “very vested in arguing …”. Do you know what that means? Yes, and it doesn’t change my point at all. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-fooled-me-for-too-long/640835/196 "2012-11-14T15:17:32Z")
That could be read as not being able or willing to defend when challenged. Not to be snarky, just sayin’, that’s kind of what you seem to be saying. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-fooled-me-for-too-long/640835/197 "2012-11-14T15:53:09Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > That could be read as not being able or willing to defend when challenged. > > Not to be snarky, just sayin’, that’s kind of what you seem to be saying. On the off chance that that’s directed at me, I honestly can’t even tell how asking me whether I know what “very vested in arguing” means even rises to the level of a challenge. It’s not an argument, it’s a weak rhetorical question with an opaque purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-fooled-me-for-too-long/640835/198 "2012-11-14T15:54:19Z")
It seems very likely this point has already been made, but I’ve didn’t spot it: **Bricker** ’s Union Horror Story thread was posted in the pit; **Brain Glutton** ’s Buchanan thread was posted in Elections. It’s not surprising that the one in the Pit backfired more spectacularly. Beyond that, yeah, I hate seeing double standards. My feeling are that people should go easier (more patient and less abusive) on minority views than on majority views. It’s too easy to kill minority view points and create an echo chamber. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-fooled-me-for-too-long/640835/199 "2012-11-14T16:01:59Z")
What’s the big deal, anyway? He’s just one dude on the internet. Don’t like his point of view or his posting style, put him on ignore. Get tired of arguing with him, stop doing it. He has a great deal of time to keep his argument going, you aren’t going to wear him down or convert him to your point of view. So just give it up. If you like his posts, read them. If you don’t, then don’t. Want to debate him, knock yourself out. Maybe you’ll get lucky and change his mind, but more than likely not. I just don’t pay attention to him and I’m perfectly happy not doing so. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-fooled-me-for-too-long/640835/200 "2012-11-14T16:08:06Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > That could be read as not being able or willing to defend when challenged. > > Not to be snarky, just sayin’, that’s kind of what you seem to be saying. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > On the off chance that that’s directed at me, I honestly can’t even tell how asking me whether I know what “very vested in arguing” means even rises to the level of a challenge. It’s not an argument, it’s a weak rhetorical question with an opaque purpose. To tell you the truth, it looked to me like it was directed at **bump** , whose post just above yours looks more like it fits with such a response. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-fooled-me-for-too-long/640835.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-fooled-me-for-too-long/640835.md?page=11)