# Bricker is a disingenous punk. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 9, 2006, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-is-a-disingenous-punk/368049 "2006-08-09T20:07:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-is-a-disingenous-punk/368049/21 "2006-08-09T21:26:51Z")
Nowhere else on the Internet can you find a message board thread in which there are two discussions going on: 1.) “You’re stupid because you said that white people never rape black people!” 2.) “So, exactly how much damage is dealt by a young green dragon’s breath weapon?” I love the SDMB. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-is-a-disingenous-punk/368049/22 "2006-08-09T21:29:50Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] I could be wrong, but I thought a young green dragon’s breath weapon inflicts 6d6 damage. Are you sure you’re not talking about a very young green dragon? [/QUOTE] Good grief–now you’re saying that green dragons are real? What’s wrong with you? > [@Bricker](#): > > I’m saying in the absence of any other data, with all other things being equal, with factors like reporting rates being corrected for, equal claim rates from blacks and whites, with any hidden codependent variables corrected for… THEN, and ONLY THEN, would the data about past events be probative (but NOT determinative) towards credibility. Do you believe that this statement has any more real-world applicability than the discussion of green dragon breath weapons? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-is-a-disingenous-punk/368049/23 "2006-08-09T21:30:40Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] I’m saying in the absence of any other data, with all other things being equal, with factors like reporting rates being corrected for, equal claim rates from blacks and whites, with any hidden codependent variables corrected for… THEN, and ONLY THEN, would the data about past events be probative (but NOT determinative) towards credibility. [/QUOTE] Have you ever had such a case? Have you ever heard of such a case? Do you ever expect your point to have any relevance in the real world? I’ve never heard any evidence like that you support ever being admissible. I’ve never even heard it proposed. Credibility, like guilt or innocence, should be determined on a case by case basis, not some general trends or statistical investigation. Proposing that it is ever relevant strikes me as distinctly unlawyerlike. Of course, if your point is that it will never occur in the real world, but was merely a fanciful idea, great for you. A wholly stupid point, but one that doesn’t mean you’re evil. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-is-a-disingenous-punk/368049/24 "2006-08-09T21:32:15Z")
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness] Good grief–now you’re saying that green dragons are real? What’s wrong with you? [/QUOTE] Like Will Rogers once famously said, “I only know what I read in the Monster Manual.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-is-a-disingenous-punk/368049/25 "2006-08-09T21:32:36Z")
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness] Good grief–now you’re saying that green dragons are real? What’s wrong with you? Do you believe that this statement has any more real-world applicability than the discussion of green dragon breath weapons? [/QUOTE] Not much. The only difference is that it leads to a discussion of things like hidden codependencies and the differences between correleation and causation - it’s the sort of thing that is common to discuss in theory. Green dragons, not so much. But is there any actual predictive value in what I’m saying? No, of course not. Because all other things are NEVER equal. They cannot be. That’s why it’s a purely theoretical statement. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-is-a-disingenous-punk/368049/26 "2006-08-09T21:34:11Z")
[QUOTE=Hamlet] Have you ever had such a case? Have you ever heard of such a case? Do you ever expect your point to have any relevance in the real world? I’ve never heard any evidence like that you support ever being admissible. I’ve never even heard it proposed. Credibility, like guilt or innocence, should be determined on a case by case basis, not some general trends or statistical investigation. Proposing that it is ever relevant strikes me as distinctly unlawyerlike. [/quote] And in the orginal thread, I said about fifty fucking times that such a thing would never be admissible, didn’t I? I disclaimed that over and over again, didn’t I? So, thanks for the heads-up. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-is-a-disingenous-punk/368049/27 "2006-08-09T21:44:43Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] But is there any actual predictive value in what I’m saying? No, of course not. [/QUOTE] So then why do you say this just yesterday in the Lying Whore thread: > [@psychloan](#): > > I was just reading back through the thread this morning. I hate to dredge up something so controversial but I was fascinated by the disparity between black on white rapes and white on black rapes. That was an early indication that something was suspect about the case. > [@Bricker](#): > > No, no, no – didn’t you read the rest of the thread? You cannot possibly make any sort of a judgement about how likely an event is by looking at how likely that event is. Don’t you know anything??? Shouldn’t you have been telling him how silly he sounds? Instead you make fun of the very thing you’re saying is your position now. Disingenous. Punk. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-is-a-disingenous-punk/368049/28 "2006-08-09T21:52:28Z")
[QUOTE=Lord Ashtar] Nowhere else on the Internet can you find a message board thread in which there are two discussions going on: 1.) “You’re stupid because you said that white people never rape black people!” 2.) “So, exactly how much damage is dealt by a young green dragon’s breath weapon?” I love the SDMB. 😃 [/QUOTE] On the other hand, I now have “Pop Goes The Weasel” going through my head. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-is-a-disingenous-punk/368049/29 "2006-08-09T22:05:09Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] Shouldn’t you have been telling him how silly he sounds? Instead you make fun of the very thing you’re saying is your position now. [/QUOTE] Yes, you got me. That post to **psychloan** was just as serious and I will defend it just as strongly as everything I’ve ever posted here. Or, option B, that post was a quick, throw-away, sarcastic line that did not truly attempt to meaningfully summarize the issues. Hmmm… Hmmm… Man, that’s a tough one. You think about it. Someone of your dazzling brilliance should get the right answer in about a quarter-century of vigorous rumination. ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-is-a-disingenous-punk/368049/30 "2006-08-09T22:10:47Z")
For the love of god and all that is holy, LET IT GO. ---
**Author:** ![Brandon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f08c70/32.png) [@Brandon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brandon)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-is-a-disingenous-punk/368049/31 "2006-08-09T22:17:09Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] Shouldn’t you have been telling him how silly he sounds? Instead you make fun of the very thing you’re saying is your position now. Disingenous. Punk. [/QUOTE] Or perhaps he was being satirical in his response? I have been lurking here for quite a while, far before my join date shows, and throughout my stay I have noticed many trends on this message board. One trend that seems to continously pop up is the sensitivity certain posters have when an issue of race is brought up. I have been following this sequence of events from the sidelines, and multiple times **you with the face** has prompted me to nearly step in, but I refrained. This however, finally convinced me to step into the fray. The OP is completely off their rocker with these accusations, no where do I see Bricker being inconsistent with his logic or somehow racist with his line of thought. He simply laid out statistics, regarding the incidence of inter-racial rape, and the conclusion that would follow as a result. He did not say that the lady is black so therefore she lied, he said with all things being equal there is less of a chance for a black woman to be raped by a white man. Like he has stated at least once, all things or not equal in real life, so his input deals with a theoretical academic view on the matter at hand. If it is wrong to look at things in that manner, a great majority of the threads on this board would have no reason to be here. He is not saying because of the statistics Marie’s claim would/should be ignored, rather Janice’s claim would be more likely, and therefore more credible. ---
**Author:** ![Pazu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pazu/32/15522_2.png) [@Pazu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pazu)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-is-a-disingenous-punk/368049/32 "2006-08-09T22:23:44Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Not much. The only difference is that it leads to a discussion of things like hidden codependencies and the differences between correleation and causation - it’s the sort of thing that is common to discuss in theory. Green dragons, not so much. [/QUOTE] I personally much prefer “green dragons” to “hidden codependency” as a topic of theoretical discussion. Although if green dragons come up as a theoretical topic this Thursday, my poor little 4th level archivist is in for a world of hurt… Alternatively, discussing red and maroon dragons could tie all these disparate topics together. We could even make a sticky thread for it. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-is-a-disingenous-punk/368049/33 "2006-08-09T22:31:11Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] [nitpick] It’s “ho **m** ing in,” as you may see in [definition 3](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=homing) of the verb form. To hone means to sharpen, as a knife on a whetstone. [/nitpick] Well, _something_ remotely useful ought to flow from the poor hamsters’ labor. [/QUOTE] I want to share in the nits. 🙂 According to [here](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hone), it seems the other definition is also acceptable (about half way down the page)… **Phrasal Verb:** **hone in** [ol] [li]To move or advance toward a target or goal: _The missiles honed in on the military installation._ [/li][li]To direct one’s attention; focus: _The lawyer honed in on the gist of the plaintiff’s testimony._ [/li][/ol] That’d work, right? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-is-a-disingenous-punk/368049/34 "2006-08-09T22:31:33Z")
**Bricker** is very intelligent, a great source and a benefit to this board. Of course, he is also arrogant and full of himself, but what do ya expect? He’s a lawyer for fucks sakes 😛 and he argues like one. It was a stupid thread _and_ a stupid argument and Bricker was a fool to let himself be dragged into it. However, this thread is even more stupid, if that’s possible- and yet again, here’s\*\* Bricker.\*\* 😛 Of course, I am here too. :smack: What we really need to discuss is not the damage a young green dragon does, but how many HD a troll has. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-is-a-disingenous-punk/368049/35 "2006-08-09T22:33:03Z")
[QUOTE=Brandon] This however, finally convinced me to step into the fray. [/QUOTE] Post count padder. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-is-a-disingenous-punk/368049/36 "2006-08-09T22:34:51Z")
**Bricker** can be called many things, but “disingenuous” is not one of them. I know of no case in which he has said anything other than _precisely_ what he meant. So it seems to be in this case too; you just chose to ignore the dozen disclaimers and focus on the part that could piss you off. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-is-a-disingenous-punk/368049/37 "2006-08-09T22:36:02Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] And in the orginal thread, I said about fifty fucking times that such a thing would never be admissible, didn’t I? I disclaimed that over and over again, didn’t I? [/quote] I didn’t read the other trainwreck, so I don’t know. I’ll just chalk it up to another pointless post by you. > [@Bricker](#): > > So, thanks for the heads-up. You’re quite welcome. Anytime you need a little help making your silly, irrelevant points more clear to the reader, just let me know. Maybe I can help with the confusion that seems to follow you around. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-is-a-disingenous-punk/368049/38 "2006-08-09T22:36:35Z")
[Please stop.](http://www.bjacked.net/LuvToHunt/forums/phpBB2/modules/gallery/albums/album01/Beat_Dead_Horse.jpg) [Stop beating.](http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/~hobd8260/BeatDeadHorse.gif) [The horse corpse is rotting.](http://www.greatwardifferent.com/Great_War/Somme/Leven%20Geillustreerd%20-%20Dead%20Horse%20001.jpg) Can’t we stick to [green dragon breath weapons?](http://www.hagencartoons.com/Green_Dragon_Web.jpg) Compare and contrast with [red dragons?](http://www.toyvault.com/herebemonsters/Red%20Dragon.jpg) Anything but another tedious round of this [bull.](http://www.toyvault.com/herebemonsters/Battle%20Cow%20-%20Large.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-is-a-disingenous-punk/368049/39 "2006-08-09T22:38:42Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] **Bricker** is very intelligent, a great source and a benefit to this board. Of course, he is also arrogant and full of himself, but what do ya expect? He’s a lawyer for fucks sakes 😛 and he argues like one. It was a stupid thread _and_ a stupid argument and Bricker was a fool to let himself be dragged into it. However, this thread is even more stupid, if that’s possible- and yet again, here’s\*\* Bricker.\*\* 😛 Of course, I am here too. :smack: What we really need to discuss is not the damage a young green dragon does, but how many HD a troll has. 😃 [/QUOTE] What kind? Normal, forest, cave, mountain, crystalline, or war? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-is-a-disingenous-punk/368049/40 "2006-08-09T22:40:09Z")
[QUOTE=Brandon] He is not saying because of the statistics Marie’s claim would/should be ignored, rather Janice’s claim would be more likely, and therefore more credible. [/QUOTE] You can’t say that Janice’s claim is more likely, just on the basis of racial crime data. You don’t have enough evidence to make that kind of statement about Janice’s claim. By definition, evidence is anything that points to something being true. “In the absence of evidence” requires, definitionally, suspension of judgement when confronted with a case that lacks it. How are you going to make any kind of judgement of veracity (probative or otherwise) if you lack the one thing that, by definition, is a prerequisite for judgement? You can not. That’s why **Bricker’s** disclaimer about evidence is garbage. It is illogical. Look, I’m not going to argue for pages about stats again because this thread is not about that. It’s about **Bricker’s** quality as a debator. I just had to respond to this little nugget of absurdity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-is-a-disingenous-punk/368049.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-is-a-disingenous-punk/368049.md?page=3)