# Bricker the troll **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 27, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791 "2009-09-27T23:31:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/241 "2009-09-30T04:15:47Z")
Corporate pays better in the long run and I never said he was dumb. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/242 "2009-09-30T12:26:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I said I am _in favor of a requirement that any organization receiving funds for the purposes ACORN does be required to submit audits and samples of their internal control and hiring procedures and make continued funding contingent on those procedures meeting a minimum standard._ Does it matter to you that current law forbids that? > [@](#): > > If ACORN does that already, then I am in favor of their continued receipt of funding. What part of IT’S ILLEGAL do you not understand? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/243 "2009-09-30T12:31:33Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > But nothing is stopping them from auditing these forms for the purposes of internal quality control. In fact, ACORN claims that it already does this. > > If you think ACORN is completely innocent and has good procedures and does its best, I’m not sure I understand why you would be so opposed to simply having a bipartisan commission investigate their practices and report on them. If YOU are satisfied that their procedures are in compliance with the law, and if YOU are now satisfied that the things you have been excoriating them for not doing would be illegal for them to do anyway, then do please summarize for us the reason for your continuing dudgeon. It might help this “reputation” you think you have if you could show your reason is something other than what it once again appears to be. IOW, put up or shut up, troll. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/244 "2009-09-30T13:14:50Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > Off with their hands. > > So what’s your specialty, **Bricker** , corporate law or personal injury? Or maybe a little of each depending on who’s hiring? None of the above. When I practiced (I don’t now) I was a criminal defense attorney. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/245 "2009-09-30T13:16:13Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Because the law won’t let them. Why that’s the law, I don’t know. > > ETA, they might be able to look them up. That I don’t know. I just know they’re not allowed to call them. OK. I’m not wedded to the idea of calling. Looking them up seems reasonable. And as I suggested, someone with professional QA experience can undoubtedly suggest even better methods. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/246 "2009-09-30T13:46:56Z")
I would assume that whatever government entity receives the forms would have to do it again, no matter how many flags are on a submission, so why are we wanting to have everything doubly, triply done? I would have thought those who love efficiency would say that there’s no point doing it if it has no effect. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/247 "2009-09-30T14:31:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > None of the above. When I practiced (I don’t now) I was a criminal defense attorney. No wonder you come off as such disassembling, disingenuous slime. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/248 "2009-09-30T14:34:37Z")
Defense attorneys, especially public defenders, are vital and valuable cogs in the machinery of justice. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/249 "2009-09-30T14:35:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > OK. I’m not wedded to the idea of calling. Looking them up seems reasonable. And as I suggested, someone with professional QA experience can undoubtedly suggest even better methods. 1. ACORN is bound to turn in registrations even if they believe they are fraudulent. 2. If ACORN somehow spot checks the data to look for fraudulent registrations, it tells them nothing about who committed the fraud or why. 3. Whatever check work ACORN does is bound to be re-done by the various government election agencies. They must independently verify the validity of individual registrations. 4. They receive federal and state grant money to carry out some of this work. They are bound to the terms of the grant, and they are not paid to perform more than the work specified in the terms of the grant. I may have missed something, but I have not heard allegations that they are not fulfilling the requirements of the federal aid money they are receiving. Why do you insist they must do more than they have been asked to do by the federal agencies who pay them? Which other federal contractors do that? I don’t know how many other agencies receive federal assistance to do voter registration, but I am doubtful ACORN is the sole agency. They should all be held to the same standard. If ACORN is fulfilling the particulars of its grants and getting this much flak, perhaps the actual problem is with the federal offices that are laying out the terms of the contract. Perhaps someone should be paying ACORN to do this checking. Oh, and perhaps then there would be charges against them for “waste, fraud and abuse” because after all, they’d be getting paid to do work that government agencies already bound by law to do – check the validity of voter registrations. Do you believe ACORN constitutes an ongoing criminal enterprise, that it exists primarily to commit fraud? Or that it is a marginal grassroots organization run largely by amateurs, and because of this has become a target of some sharp scammers who latch onto it like lampreys? Which is more likely? ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/250 "2009-09-30T14:49:03Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Defense attorneys, especially public defenders, are vital and valuable cogs in the machinery of justice. Agreed. However, this doesn’t change the fact that 99% of what Bricker posts is dissembling, disingenuous slime. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/251 "2009-09-30T14:49:19Z")
GAH. The board hung and then it wouldn’t reload the page and I thought it didn’t go through. Double post. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/252 "2009-09-30T14:50:05Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Defense attorneys, especially public defenders, get my thanks. They get my thanks too, honestly. However, Bricker’s posts are still disassembling, disingenuous slime. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/253 "2009-09-30T14:57:50Z")
> [@Michael\_Ellis](#): > > Agreed. However, this doesn’t change the fact that 99% of what Bricker posts is dissembling, disingenuous slime. Eh, I think that’s an exaggeration. He sometimes acts and posts as if he were the self-appointed defense attorney for the Republican party. If you read his posts that way it becomes pretty clear. He’s not all that interested in truth in those posts but in getting his chosen client acquitted. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/254 "2009-09-30T14:59:41Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Eh, I think that’s an exaggeration. > > … He’s not all that interested in truth in those posts but in getting his chosen client acquitted. And since I’m a historian, not a juror, I feel free to call him disassembling, disingenuous, dishonest slime. I feel the same way about Edward Carson (he who prosecuted Oscar Wilde and stoked up the Troubles in Northern Ireland). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/255 "2009-09-30T15:32:16Z")
> [@Michael\_Ellis](#): > > No wonder you come off as such disassembling, disingenuous slime. Ah, yes, the ever-popular “lawyers are slime,” served with a dash of “…especially criminal defense lawyers.” Until the day comes along when you are accused of a crime and need a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/256 "2009-09-30T15:35:17Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > 1. ACORN is bound to turn in registrations even if they believe they are fraudulent. > 2. If ACORN somehow spot checks the data to look for fraudulent registrations, it tells them nothing about who committed the fraud or why. > 3. Whatever check work ACORN does is bound to be re-done by the various government election agencies. They must independently verify the validity of individual registrations. > 4. They receive federal and state grant money to carry out some of this work. They are bound to the terms of the grant, and they are not paid to perform more than the work specified in the terms of the grant. I may have missed something, but I have not heard allegations that they are not fulfilling the requirements of the federal aid money they are receiving. > > Why do you insist they must do more than they have been asked to do by the federal agencies who pay them? Which other federal contractors do that? I’m suggesting that the terms of the grants be modified to require ACORN, and any other agencies doing similar work, to do this extra verification. I’m not insisting they do more than their grants require, in other words; I’m suggesting that their grants be modified to include the requirements for this extra work. > [@](#): > > I don’t know how many other agencies receive federal assistance to do voter registration, but I am doubtful ACORN is the sole agency. They should all be held to the same standard. Of course. > [@](#): > > Do you believe ACORN constitutes an ongoing criminal enterprise, that it exists primarily to commit fraud? Absolutely not. > [@](#): > > Or that it is a marginal grassroots organization run largely by amateurs, and because of this has become a target of some sharp scammers who latch onto it like lampreys? Which is more likely? This explanation is almost certainly the correct one. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/257 "2009-09-30T16:11:17Z")
> [@Michael\_Ellis](#): > > And since I’m a historian, not a juror, I feel free to call him disassembling, disingenuous, dishonest slime. I feel the same way about Edward Carson (he who prosecuted Oscar Wilde and stoked up the Troubles in Northern Ireland). I just always assume he’s playing games. He says useful things at times, though I have no confidence in his “real” positions (if they exist). ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/258 "2009-09-30T16:17:56Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I would assume that whatever government entity receives the forms would have to do it again, no matter how many flags are on a submission, so why are we wanting to have everything doubly, triply done? > > I would have thought those who love efficiency would say that there’s no point doing it if it has no effect. Of course it has an effect. It has the effect of slowing down ACORN’s efforts to register people in poor neighborhoods, who might then go an vote for a democrat. That’s the whole point! Duh! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/259 "2009-09-30T16:41:26Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Of course it has an effect. It has the effect of slowing down ACORN’s efforts to register people in poor neighborhoods, who might then go an vote for a democrat. That’s the whole point! > > Duh! You’re right. Better by far for ACORN to simply leave things as they are right now. No change needed – everything’s peachy. If my goal were to stop ACORN, then I’d be arguing just that, wouldn’t I? You idiots think that ACORN’s current situation - completely defunded and barred from government grants – is somehow preferable to ACORN being willing to implement simple QA measures and continue to do the work they’ve been doing? Really? Great. I’m a convert to your approach. ACORN needs to change not one whit. Their existing measures are what they are, and if Congress doesn’t like it, they can lump it. I love it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/260 "2009-09-30T17:17:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No change needed – everything’s peachy. No change PERMITTED, fool. Don’t you get that you need to drop a dissembling argument (psst, **Michael** , don’t let your spellchecker run on automatic) when your target audience tells you they see through it? > [@](#): > > If my goal were to stop ACORN, then I’d be arguing just that, wouldn’t I? No, you’d be doing just what you’re doing; trying to weasel around it, claiming facts that aren’t facts and principles that aren’t principles, all in an effort to avoid taking responsibility for the positions you espouse. > [@](#): > > You idiots think that ACORN’s current situation - completely defunded and barred from government grants – is somehow preferable to ACORN being willing to implement simple QA measures and continue to do the work they’ve been doing? Really? What part of “IT’S ILLEGAL” do you take issue with, Weaselboy? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791.md?page=14)