# Bricker the troll **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 27, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791 "2009-09-27T23:31:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/261 "2009-09-30T17:30:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You’re right. Better by far for ACORN to simply leave things as they are right now. No change needed – everything’s peachy. > > If my goal were to stop ACORN, then I’d be arguing just that, wouldn’t I? > > You idiots think that ACORN’s current situation - completely defunded and barred from government grants – is somehow preferable to ACORN being willing to implement simple QA measures and continue to do the work they’ve been doing? Really? > > Great. I’m a convert to your approach. ACORN needs to change not one whit. Their existing measures are what they are, and if Congress doesn’t like it, they can lump it. I love it. ACORN is already boned by the spin machine of Glenn Beck et al, combined with the wimpyness of democrat politicians. The facts behind what ACORN has done have little to do with the end result. Anything ACORN will do to improve policies will simply be spun as an admission of guilt and more crap will be thrown at them. They are done. Mission Accomplished. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/262 "2009-09-30T17:33:48Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Why do you insist they must do more than they have been asked to do by the federal agencies who pay them? Which other federal contractors do that? I have no dog in this fight, but the defense contractor I used to work for had many internal controls that were not required by the government. So do many of my current clients who are also contractors of various types to the U.S. government. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/263 "2009-09-30T18:27:36Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > ACORN is already boned by the spin machine of Glenn Beck et al, combined with the wimpyness of democrat politicians. The facts behind what ACORN has done have little to do with the end result. Anything ACORN will do to improve policies will simply be spun as an admission of guilt and more crap will be thrown at them. > > They are done. Mission Accomplished. Perhaps. And if so, it’s a shame, because they had a valuable contribution to make. But as **Boyo Jim** suggests, they are a marginal grassroots organization run largely by amateurs, and they have run up against a problem that needs professionals to solve. If they can swallow their pride and accept modifications suggested by professionals, I think it’s likely they can survive and continue their mission. But if the reaction of many posters here is any indication, maybe not. Here are people with no dog in the fight except being on the same general political side of the aisle, virtually apoplectic at the thought of changing the law to add better internal controls for ACORN. If uninvolved people are so resistant to that change, I can only imagine that ACORN itself would be that much more resistant. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/264 "2009-09-30T18:31:52Z")
In a normal environment your words and ideas are reasonable and useful. In the current highly politicized environment however, with the “my team must win at any cost and by any means”, ACORN is toast. There is nothing. Nothing that ACORN can do at this point to satisfy to 20% of the population that listens to talk radio and HATES the “other side”. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/265 "2009-09-30T18:34:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If they can swallow their pride and accept modifications suggested by professionals They have been required to follow the LAW, Counselor. :rolleyes: Did you stop being concerned about that at the time you stopped being an officer of the court? > [@](#): > > I think it’s likely they can survive and continue their mission. A finer effort at concern trolling this board has never seen. :rolleyes: Did you remember to take your hanky and dab that furtive tear at the corner of your eye, over how badly ACORN’s reputation has suffered from being required to follow the law? You’re not kidding anyone anymore, you know, with the possible exceptions of **Shodan, Sam Stone** , and, on his bad days, **Scylla**. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/266 "2009-09-30T18:46:05Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > In a normal environment your words and ideas are reasonable and useful. In the current highly politicized environment however, with the “my team must win at any cost and by any means”, ACORN is toast. > > There is nothing. Nothing that ACORN can do at this point to satisfy to 20% of the population that listens to talk radio and HATES the “other side”. Yeah, but that 20% isn’t the Congress of the United States. Congress, with a Democratic majority, passed the defunding bill; Congress can modify it. The campaign against ACORN has been a smart one, and it’s worked. But ACORN’s actual, much smaller sins can be fixed by Congress’ passage of a law that requires QA procedures for voter registration gathering. They can then point to that law and say, in essence: “Look, any organization that wants this grant money has to follow these new quality assurance mandates.” That would put the onus back on the critics to either show how the new procedures were inadequate or how ACORN wasn’t really following them. (I assume ACORN can fix, on its own, guidance to its employees telling them they have to report attempts to engage assistance for illegal activities that come to their mortgage and tax specialists). The only problem I see is resistance to that approach is coming from the defend-ACORN-at-all-costs Left. But it’s funny, because if you’re correct – if ACORN is in fact toast – then what are **dropzone** et al defending? It’s over. ACORN is slain. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/267 "2009-09-30T18:47:13Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > What part of “IT’S ILLEGAL” do you take issue with, Weaselboy? Since you seem to be harping on the submission of registrations angle, there are a number of ways to improve that that aren’t illegal. Step back for a second and take a look: The way for ACORN to not submit faulty registrations is to not collect them in the first place. Bricker outlined a number of ways this could be done: supervise employees more closely, better training of employees, better incentives etc. These options have nothing to do with the actual employees, but rather the management and direction of the the organization as a whole. Given the current circumstances, it’s pretty evident that ACORN has take a quantity over quality approach to collecting registrations. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/268 "2009-09-30T19:01:39Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Since you seem to be harping on the submission of registrations angle Moi? That’s what all this entire manufactured dudgeon of is _all about_. You don’t like it, go tell **Bricker** and the RW lie machine that feeds him. > [@](#): > > The way for ACORN to not submit faulty registrations is to not collect them in the first place. What part of “illegal” … aw, fuck it. If you want the laws changed, go right ahead. Note that none of you lying trolls is doing jack shit about that, or even thought of it until forced back so many trenches that it’s all you have left. But admit you’re full of shit once again? You’ll never think of _that_, will you? You too need to go learn what concern trolling is before you embarrass yourself with any more of it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/269 "2009-09-30T19:08:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The only problem I see is resistance to that approach is coming from the defend-ACORN-at-all-costs Left. What resistance is that? There is none stated in this thread; only notice that you’re attempting to evade the question once again. And “defend _at all costs_”, you say? Bullshit again. In your past life, did you consider yourself to be defending clients “at all costs”? Or were you satisfied to get them fair treatment, to get false or manufactured charges against them dismissed? That’s all you’re seeing here. But you know that too, you lying troll. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/270 "2009-09-30T19:14:55Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Since you seem to be harping on the submission of registrations angle, there are a number of ways to improve that that aren’t illegal. Step back for a second and take a look: > > The way for ACORN to not submit faulty registrations is to not collect them in the first place. I’m not persuaded that the suggestions I made above (looking up the number, and submitting registrations in two separate stacks, one ‘suspect’ and one ‘confident’) is illegal. But it’s no matter, since my proposal was for Congress to CHANGE THE LAW to permit such checks to occur – indeed, to require them – it’s not remotely relevant what the law is now. What’s relevant is what the law SHOULD BE to quiet the critics while not eviscerating the valid mission ACORN does. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/271 "2009-09-30T19:38:38Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > What part of “illegal” … aw, fuck it. What part of ‘supervising your employees properly so that they don’t fill out forms for Mickey Mouse’ is illegal? What part of ‘structuring incentives so that there is no reason for an employee to fill out a form for Mickey Mouse or other fictional person’ is illegal? What part of ‘Train Employees thoroughly so that all necessary information is obtained so the registration doesn’t need to be rejected as incomplete’ is illegal? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/272 "2009-09-30T19:50:31Z")
More to the point, why would anyone believe that it’s better to insist on no changes, a course of action that seems to leave ACORN in the dust, instead of advancing the idea that perhaps whatever laws are preventing quality assurance work being done properly be changed? Congress was quite willing to vote to cut off ALL funding to ACORN; surely at least the effort could be made to apply a less draconian solution. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/273 "2009-09-30T19:53:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The only problem I see is resistance to that approach is coming from the defend-ACORN-at-all-costs Left. Blow. Me. According to this statement, if anyone dares to defend ACORN, they’re doing it because they are the “defend-ACORN-at-all-costs Left.” Is this really the best you can do? I guess that makes you the “destroy-ACORN-at-all-costs Right.” You’ve already made up your mind, and now you’re just looking for reasons. Sound about right? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/274 "2009-09-30T20:02:30Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > Blow. Me. > > According to this statement, if anyone dares to defend ACORN, they’re doing it because they are the “defend-ACORN-at-all-costs Left.” Is this really the best you can do? > > I guess that makes you the “destroy-ACORN-at-all-costs Right.” You’ve already made up your mind, and now you’re just looking for reasons. Sound about right? First: What, specifically, do you find offensive about what I’m suggesting? Second: no, it’s not any defense of ACORN that makes me think they’re part of the defend-ACORN-at-all-costs Left. But anyone whose response is in essence: ACORN shouldn’t change a thing, any change they make would be illegal, and they’re perfect as is… THAT, I would say, is a member of the defend-ACORN-at-all-costs Left. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/275 "2009-09-30T20:06:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > First: What, specifically, do you find offensive about what I’m suggesting? > > Second: no, it’s not any defense of ACORN that makes me think they’re part of the defend-ACORN-at-all-costs Left. But anyone whose response is in essence: ACORN shouldn’t change a thing, any change they make would be illegal, and they’re perfect as is… THAT, I would say, is a member of the defend-ACORN-at-all-costs Left. This is pretty weak for you. You’d do better by reverting to your previous legalism. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/276 "2009-09-30T20:09:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But anyone whose response is in essence: ACORN shouldn’t change a thing, any change they make would be illegal, and they’re perfect as is… THAT, I would say, is a member of the defend-ACORN-at-all-costs Left. And some examples of that would be whom? Has anybody claimed ACORN is “perfect”, or is that just another childish tantrum of a lie by a troll? If you’re actually, as it appears, still criticizing them for NOT acting illegally, then there’s a real problem with the position you’ve now furiously backpedaled into, isn’t there, Counselor? > [@Sinaijon](#): > > What part of ‘supervising your employees properly so that they don’t fill out forms for Mickey Mouse’ is illegal? If you insist on demonstrating your own profound factual ignorance here, perhaps in some notion that it’s entertaining, well, the Pit is certainly the right place. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/277 "2009-09-30T20:11:40Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Of course it has an effect. It has the effect of slowing down ACORN’s efforts to register people in poor neighborhoods, who might then go an vote for a democrat. That’s the whole point! > > Duh! I want to see the justifications for the point, since no fucking one of these people is willing to state it so clearly. I want to see why a private organization should do work that would have to be redone later by a government organization. Is there _any_ justification for that? It’s actually rather funny to see the right, those upholders of business freedom, those deniers of legislation, say that it’s important, nay VITAL for an organization to do redundant checking of their work. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/278 "2009-09-30T20:13:50Z")
**Bricker** , in a normal environment your words and ideas are reasonable and useful. In the current highly politicized environment however, with the “my team must win at any cost and by any means”, ACORN is toast. There is nothing, nothing that ACORN can do at this point to satisfy the 20% of the population that listens to talk radio and HATES the “other side”. Of course ACORN should make changes. Yes, the changes you suggest (and **Sinaijon** suggests) are reasonable and useful. The trouble is, reasonable people like yourselves are not the ones leading the charge against ACORN. The ones leading the charge want ACORN gone, shot, dead, and buried. This small minority don’t want ACORN gone because they think they waste government money; they don’t want them gone because they think they need to improve supervision of employees or they need to restructure incentives. They want ACORN gone because they effectively register voters that tend to vote for the “other side”. PERIOD. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/279 "2009-09-30T20:18:10Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I want to see the justifications for the point, since no fucking one of these people is willing to state it so clearly. > > I want to see why a private organization should do work that would have to be redone later by a government organization. Is there _any_ justification for that? Sure. They suck at their work. They submit massive numbers of fradulent voting registrations. I’m looking for a way to fix that. Your position seems to be, “There is no possible way to fix that, and we shouldn’t try.” Congress’ response was to cut off their funding. A Democratically controlled Congress, I might add. MY response is to propose some method short of that to solve their problem. But somehow, I am the asshole. So you tell me. What’s the answer. “Do nothing; ACORN has done nothing wrong?” OK, except that there’s that cut-off funding thing that seems to have resulted. So perhaps that’s not a good idea. “Call Bricker a troll! That should work!” Once again, a reliable go-to plan from the Great Hive Mind of the SDMB, but, like many liberal plans, shockingly deficient in what we on the Right might smugly call “Real World Results.” So is there a Plan C? Or do you guys intend to simply congratulate each other at how correct you are and how wrong your opponents are? Because I gotta tell you, that pesky Real World Results thing is still looming out there. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/280 "2009-09-30T20:21:55Z")
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