# Bricker the troll **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 27, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791 "2009-09-27T23:31:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/281 "2009-09-30T20:23:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > More to the point, why would anyone believe that it’s better to insist on no changes, a course of action that seems to leave ACORN in the dust, instead of advancing the idea that perhaps whatever laws are preventing quality assurance work being done properly be changed? Congress was quite willing to vote to cut off ALL funding to ACORN; surely at least the effort could be made to apply a less draconian solution. I don’t think that the laws are in place to prevent quality controls, but that they are in place to insist that only authorized persons may conduct such control. I thnk that’s pretty darned important. I’ve little doubt that such power would be a boon to ACORN workers, and that the insistence on turning those fakes in is a huge pain in the butt for all concerned. ACORN agrees with me more than I do, but that doesn’t mean I trust them, they have navels and genitalia, and even when honest remain corruptible. As are we all. But this is almost wholly beside the point, the Pubbies are out to destroy ACORN because of what it does _right_, not for what it does wrong. ACORN brings the powerless into the civic arena, its just about impossible for that to be wrong. That the poor and powerless lean to the Democrats isn’t ACORN’s fault, its the Republican’s fault, and these maneuvers are nothing more than an attempt to stifle the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/282 "2009-09-30T20:24:33Z")
Absolutely ACORN could stand to improve their preventative measures to lessen the amount of fraudulent registrations. I don’t think it would help any, though. They’d still be shouted out of existence. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/283 "2009-09-30T20:24:57Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > **Bricker** , in a normal environment your words and ideas are reasonable and useful. In the current highly politicized environment however, with the “my team must win at any cost and by any means”, ACORN is toast. > > There is nothing, nothing that ACORN can do at this point to satisfy the 20% of the population that listens to talk radio and HATES the “other side”. > > Of course ACORN should make changes. Yes, the changes you suggest (and **Sinaijon** suggests) are reasonable and useful. The trouble is, reasonable people like yourselves are not the ones leading the charge against ACORN. The ones leading the charge want ACORN gone, shot, dead, and buried. You’re correct. But again let me point out: those people have loud mouths but they are not plentiful in number. They would have gotten nowhere if ACORN had not obligingly cut the rope, hung it on the gallows, tied it into a noose, and stepped into it for them. If you’re being pursued by people like that, one thing you ought to consider is how even the appearance of impropriety can be seized upon and used against you. And in this case, there was ACTUAL impropriety. Not as much by half as what the attackers said, but let’s not be ridiculous here: ACORN has dirty hands. carelessly dirty, not maliciously dirty, but to deny the dirt is to be wilfully blind or stunningly dishonest. Would Congress go for a solution that involved ACORN proposing changes in their process that increased transparency and reduced error? I think they would. But if this thread is any judge, ACORN’s own defenders don’t see that as necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/284 "2009-09-30T20:25:57Z")
Well, if you repeat something that forecefully, it has to be true! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/285 "2009-09-30T20:27:00Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > But this is almost wholly beside the point, the Pubbies are out to destroy ACORN because of what it does _right_, not for what it does wrong. ACORN brings the powerless into the civic arena, its just about impossible for that to be wrong. That the poor and powerless lean to the Democrats isn’t ACORN’s fault, its the Republican’s fault, and these maneuvers are nothing more than an attempt to stifle the consequences. Yes, that’s true. But what is the Real World Response right now? What should be done now, given the Republicans’ hugely successful assault on ACORN? Surrender? And yell about how mean the mean ol’ meanie Republicans are? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/286 "2009-09-30T20:28:01Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Well, if you repeat something that forecefully, it has to be true! Which part is not true? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/287 "2009-09-30T20:28:08Z")
Oh my god. I repeat once again. Obvious Concern Troll is Obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/288 "2009-09-30T20:30:04Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Oh my god. I repeat once again. Obvious Concern Troll is Obvious. I am sorry, but I don’t get it still. Perhaps you could use simple words and spell out precisely what you’re saying. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/289 "2009-09-30T20:31:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But again let me point out: those people have loud mouths but they are not plentiful in number. Yet they include you. > [@](#): > > They would have gotten nowhere if ACORN had not obligingly cut the rope, hung it on the gallows, tied it into a noose, and stepped into it for them. Is blaming the victim standard practice for defense lawyers? :dubious: > [@](#): > > If you’re being pursued by people like that, one thing you ought to consider is how even the appearance of impropriety can be seized upon and used against you. Fuck that noise. You’re defending the yahoos, still are, you’re still one of them. You’re not deploring their actions, you’re deploring their target’s actions. You’re not supporting fuller participation in our democracy, you’re apologizing for your own party’s smear tactics. You’re not proposing fixes to the basic problem; you’re _part_ of the basic problem. Have you looked up “concern troll” yet? It’s getting late. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/290 "2009-09-30T20:34:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, that’s true. > > But what is the Real World Response right now? What should be done now, given the Republicans’ hugely successful assault on ACORN? Surrender? And yell about how mean the mean ol’ meanie Republicans are? If they do anything to appease those who hate them already, they will accomplish nothing and give away a lot. The same as if the left became Republican-Lite like many were suggesting here a couople years ago, suggesting appeasement. That’s a no lose situation for the right, which at the very least would move the political debate to the right, but would most likely give the GOP a solid majority for the future due to perceptions of lapdoggissm and selling out and political irrelevance. To be charitable it could be a misunderstanding of the political process in America. But most likely, considering the intelligence of the sources, it is an attempt to suggest self-destructive courses of action that are win-win for the suggesters. In other words, concern trolling. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/291 "2009-09-30T20:34:30Z")
**Bricker** , what you say would make more sense if people were saying “Fix it, ACORN!” and ACORN said “Screw you!” Instead, people immediately starting calling ACORN corrupt and wanted it gone. What chance were they given to clean up their act? The undercover pimp videos were sketchy and the ACORN workers in question were fired immediately, but _that_ wasn’t good enough for the people who wanted to claim ACORN was corrupt throughout. Nothing but the death of ACORN is going to suffice. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/292 "2009-09-30T20:40:23Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Oh my god. I repeat once again. Obvious Concern Troll is Obvious. OK, I get it. From wiki: “…offering a poisoned apple in the form of advice to political opponents that, if taken, would harm the recipient.” How would this advice harm the recipient? Or is it that because I’m a conservative, any advice I offer MUST be poisoned, even if you just can’t quite articulate how it is? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/293 "2009-09-30T20:40:25Z")
Yes, likely, but it can be reformed under another name. Not easily, not simply, but doable. A setback, not a catastrophe. Keep in mind, ACORN is mostly an umbrella organization of other, local organizations. And we’ve learned something very important and useful, and, as is so often the case, it took our ruthless and cynical opponents to teach it to us: Saul Alinsky was right, organization and outreach is the key. They didn’t go after ACORN just for the heck of it, they went after ACORN because ACORN was \*hurting \*them, making them bleed. Nothing dramatic, nothing exciting, just the dull and tedious monotony of legwork, talking to people, bringing them in. And even if we didn’t catch on to how effective that is, our enemies sure did! Thanks, guys! Rest assured, we will take the lesson to heart! “Stab you where? A little up and to the left? You mean there!? Oh, yes, I can see that’s much more effective! Thanks awfully.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/294 "2009-09-30T20:42:36Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > **Bricker** , what you say would make more sense if people were saying “Fix it, ACORN!” and ACORN said “Screw you!” Instead, people immediately starting calling ACORN corrupt and wanted it gone. What chance were they given to clean up their act? The undercover pimp videos were sketchy and the ACORN workers in question were fired immediately, but _that_ wasn’t good enough for the people who wanted to claim ACORN was corrupt throughout. Nothing but the death of ACORN is going to suffice. Actually, there are two issues: the voter registrations and the pimp videos. The voter registrations complaints have been longstanding, so I’m not sure I agree that they had no chance to clean up their act. The pimp videos did produce the response you speak of, but in my view that happened only because of simmering concern over the voting business. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/295 "2009-09-30T20:46:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How would this advice harm the recipient? I hear jail’s pretty bad these days. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/296 "2009-09-30T20:56:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sure. They suck at their work. They submit massive numbers of fradulent voting registrations. I’m looking for a way to fix that. Your position seems to be, “There is no possible way to fix that, and we shouldn’t try.” > > Congress’ response was to cut off their funding. A Democratically controlled Congress, I might add. > > MY response is to propose some method short of that to solve their problem. > > But somehow, I am the asshole. > > So you tell me. What’s the answer. “Do nothing; ACORN has done nothing wrong?” OK, except that there’s that cut-off funding thing that seems to have resulted. So perhaps that’s not a good idea. Okay. They suck at their work. Can you show where other groups doing the same thing are better or worse? Can you show where having them double check yet still hand in the registrations somehow magically makes those registrations vanish? Can you show where ACORN doing all of that extra legwork actually reduces the amount of work the government agency has to do? Can you show where ACORN not doing all fo that extra legwork has resulted in voter fraud? Can you show where you have gone after Republican-leaning voter registration drives with the same zeal? Can you show where you have 100% accepted the fact that they have to submit all of the registrations they collect? Can you show where you aren’t just a concern troll who will not ever be satisfied because it is in your political interest for ACORN to die? My solution? I’ve already said it. No private organization should have to register people to vote. It should be an ongoing government function. That ACORN is doing the job in the first place is a failure. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/297 "2009-09-30T20:58:00Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Of course ACORN should make changes. Yes, the changes you suggest (and **Sinaijon** suggests) are reasonable and useful. Really? They strike me as remarkably cosmetic and ineffectual. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/298 "2009-09-30T21:02:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, that’s true. > > But what is the Real World Response right now? What should be done now, given the Republicans’ hugely successful assault on ACORN? This librul would suggest a widespread effort to point out to prospective voters that while the Dems are concerned with things like making sure everyone has health insurance, and won’t lose it to a ‘pre-existing condition’ like acne or bunions the moment they need it for something genuinely serious, the GOP is concerned with…ACORN. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/299 "2009-09-30T21:03:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Actually, there are two issues: the voter registrations and the pimp videos. I’m aware. I was pointing to it as another example. I just can’t see that an honest effort has been made to constructively criticize (by mainstream GOP voices), only to demonize. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791/300 "2009-09-30T21:03:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Actually, there are two issues: the voter registrations and the pimp videos. > > The voter registrations complaints have been longstanding, so I’m not sure I agree that they had no chance to clean up their act. > > The pimp videos did produce the response you speak of, but in my view that happened only because of simmering concern over the voting business. Once again, you and a very few others may have had genuine concern over voter registration procedures. The shouters and the screamers and the television & radio personalities and the strategists who want to win at all costs? They had a concern that ACORN was successful in registering large numbers of people who had not registered before; people who actually turned out and voted for democrats. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bricker-the-troll/511791.md?page=16)