# "Bride of Peace" hitchhiker murdered in Turkey **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 12, 2008, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bride-of-peace-hitchhiker-murdered-in-turkey/445061 "2008-04-12T19:01:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bride-of-peace-hitchhiker-murdered-in-turkey/445061/141 "2008-04-14T20:58:34Z")
Well, they say all politics is local. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bride-of-peace-hitchhiker-murdered-in-turkey/445061/142 "2008-04-14T21:00:05Z")
[QUOTE=Yeticus Rex] But my over all view in this thread is why the hell are we squabbling in this thread over American political ideologies when it should be about the ultimate betrayal of an over-trusting Italian woman in the hands an alleged long-time criminal in the country of Turkey? [/QUOTE] It’s happening because certain posters to this thread have been quick to equate the OP’s despicable sentiments to conservatives in general, and, having grown tired of the inaccurate way that conservatives are characterized on this board, some of us have decided that the time has come to speak up and try to explain how these characterizations are in error. This inevitably leads to libs coming in and telling us we’re full of shit, we defend against that, we get more accusations of bullshit, we defend against those, etc., etc. ad infinitum, and eventually we get to where we are now. And before any more of the expected “conservatives = GWB/Rove” insults are hurled in response to my post here, I would point out that conservatives in general are no more defined by Bush and Rove than liberals are defined by the Clintons and James Carville. Conservatives here could just as easily paint all liberals as liars and philanderers (in Bill’s case, anyway) and the characterizations would be no less inaccurate. I’ve been a conservative for decades and my views and beliefs and the moral code I’ve developed have nothing to do with any particular president. So in other words, the conversation has turned into a discussion of conservative vs. liberal ideology because certain liberal posters here have mischaracterized us and we have decided that the time has come to fight back against the ignorance that pervades this place in regard to conservatism. It’s taking longer than we thought. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bride-of-peace-hitchhiker-murdered-in-turkey/445061/143 "2008-04-14T21:16:23Z")
[This editorial](http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Pamela%20Troy/40) by Pamela Troy is highly relevant to the OP. She is discussing the 1972 SF/parody novel [_The Iron Dream,_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Iron_Dream) by Norman-Spinrad-writing-as-Adolf-Hitler. > [@](#): > > In 1972, when The Iron Dream was first published, Nazi Germany was still well within living memory. “Godwin’s Law” had yet to be formulated. Writers still felt there was an object lesson to be gleaned from the rise and fall of the Third Reich other than “Genocide is bad,” and that one of those lessons had to do with the effects of dehumanizing language. Readers of that time would have drawn a direct line from the language used in the quote from “Waffing/Goering” with which I opened this piece to Feric Jaggar’s bludgeoning to death an unarmed opponent a few pages later. > > It’s not so obvious to readers today – not in a new century where the right is trying to redraw Hitler as a liberal. Not where nationally broadcast propagandists like Ann Coulter and Michael Savage use language similar to the rhetoric of Julius Streicher and are paid for it and applauded by legions of enthusiastic fans: > … the scum at CNN, the verminist traitors at MSNBC have gone over to the enemy’s side. > 5/13/04,Michael Savage > > …these big-mouthed, phony scum of the ACLU … should be put into Abu Ghraib prison. > 4/19/2004 Michael Savage > > If liberals are not traitors, their only fallback argument at this point is that they’re really stupid. > 9/12/2007 Ann Coulter > > Women like Pamela Harriman and Patricia Duff are basically Anna Nicole Smith from the waist down. Let’s just call it for what it is. They’re whores. > 11/16/00 Ann Coulter > Scum, traitors, whores, vermin… No wonder that a tragedy suffered by a liberal or a perceived liberal is frequently met on the right, not with the fellow feeling owed to another human being, but ridicule. It’s the act of a “bleeding heart” to angst over the problems of “vermin” or “traitors.” > > Have some women who lost their husbands in 9/11 voiced criticism of Bush and his war? Imply they are enjoying their widowhood, that their dead husbands probably didn’t love them anyway and had wanted to divorce them. Suggest they pose for pornography. > > Has an actor afflicted with Parkinson’s made an impassioned and public plea for stem cell research? Accuse him of deliberately exaggerating his symptoms. Do an amusing imitation of him while you’re at it. > > Has a young peace activist named Marla Ruzicka been killed in Iraq? Say that it’s not such a sad thing, given this dead girl’s politics. Call it poetic justice. > > And those are just examples involving public figures, paid commentators like Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, and Debbie Schlussel. Visit sites like Free Republic, listen to some of the callers to talk radio, and you encounter rhetoric that sometimes does more than merely border on the violent. We haven’t reached the point, as far as I know, where right-wingers are openly applauding someone backhanding an old man across the mouth. We are, however, at the point where a photograph of a policeman arresting an elderly code-pink demonstrator, gets the following comment on FR without any demurrals from other Free Republic readers: > “I wish I was the arresting officer. I may be on suspension, but giving that witches arm an extra twist and ‘accidental’ baning her head into the all would have been worth it.” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bride-of-peace-hitchhiker-murdered-in-turkey/445061/144 "2008-04-14T21:31:08Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] So in other words, the conversation has turned into a discussion of conservative vs. liberal ideology because certain liberal posters here have mischaracterized us and we have decided that the time has come to fight back against the ignorance that pervades this place in regard to conservatism. [/QUOTE] To be perfectly accurate, it was the OP who used the rape and murder of some poor woman as an excuse to make fun of “progressives.” So the idiot political namecalling was an essential part of thread from its conception. Not that that dignifies all the “no u” responses from liberals, of course. It would be nice if more people would remember that **Loathsome** ’s posts are best used as examples of “how not to be,” not the least aspect of which being his approach to political discourse. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bride-of-peace-hitchhiker-murdered-in-turkey/445061/145 "2008-04-14T21:32:11Z")
Mouth-breathing. Knuckle-draggers. Tightie righties. Homophobes. Neocons. Religious nutjobs. Right-wing nutjobs. Dumb, stupid, thick-headed. Rednecks. Racist. Sexist. Selfish. Uncaring. Dictatorial. Etc., etc. Kind of along these lines. Is that what you mean, **BG**? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bride-of-peace-hitchhiker-murdered-in-turkey/445061/146 "2008-04-14T21:34:15Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] So in other words, the conversation has turned into a discussion of conservative vs. liberal ideology because certain liberal posters here have mischaracterized us and we have decided that the time has come to fight back against the ignorance that pervades this place in regard to conservatism. [/QUOTE] Actually, it turned into such a discussion because the dumbass OP made mischaracterizations in the first place. Anyone else on either side (as wrong as I find both sides to be in this) was just continuing down that path. Guess which group was the target of the initial mischaracterization? Also, your “liars and philanderers” analogy is really crappy, but you knew that. > [@](#): > > It’s taking longer than we thought. Indeed. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bride-of-peace-hitchhiker-murdered-in-turkey/445061/147 "2008-04-14T21:39:54Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] Mouth-breathing. Knuckle-draggers. Tightie righties. Homophobes. Neocons. Religious nutjobs. Right-wing nutjobs. Dumb, stupid, thick-headed. Rednecks. Racist. Sexist. Selfish. Uncaring. Dictatorial. Etc., etc. Kind of along these lines. Is that what you mean, **BG**? 😉 [/QUOTE] C’mon! Don’t be so hard on yourself! ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bride-of-peace-hitchhiker-murdered-in-turkey/445061/148 "2008-04-14T21:44:08Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] It would be nice if more people would remember that **Loathsome** ’s posts are best used as examples of “how not to be,” not the least aspect of which being his approach to political discourse. [/QUOTE] Well said, **Miller**. > [@DMC](#): > > Actually, it turned into such a discussion because the dumbass OP made mischaracterizations in the first place. No, it turned into a discussion of ideology because some of the posters here claimed the OP’s sentiments were typical of conservatism. > [@DMC](#): > > Also, your “liars and philanderers” analogy is really crappy, but you knew that. Seems spot on to me. Some of the libs in this thread equate conservatives to GWB when it comes to heartlessness toward murderers, so how is wrong to point out that it’s equally inaccurate to attribute the Clintons’ dishonesty and Bill’s philandering to liberals ? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bride-of-peace-hitchhiker-murdered-in-turkey/445061/149 "2008-04-14T22:08:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **FoieGrasIsEvil** > I agree that she was naive and possibly stupid, I believe that she kinda deserved what happened despite her “western” travels as a hitchiker… No, she did. She was _foolish_, no question about _that_, but nobody deserves _that_. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bride-of-peace-hitchhiker-murdered-in-turkey/445061/150 "2008-04-14T22:09:00Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Wasn’t this in reference to some weirdo (not a poster but only referred to by another poster) who commemorated the anniversary of some chick’s abortion every year as if it was a “birthday” for his “child?” Yeah, I stand by “man up.” [/QUOTE] So, your memory is so bad that you don’t remember the intial post, or the 7-page pitting that followed it? [Link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=385511) ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bride-of-peace-hitchhiker-murdered-in-turkey/445061/151 "2008-04-14T22:23:02Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] No, it turned into a discussion of ideology because some of the posters here claimed the OP’s sentiments were typical of conservatism. [/QUOTE] > [@THE OP](#): > > Just when I think progressives couldn’t possibly get more stupid and naive, something like this always happens. As for boo-hooing because I took exception to this aspect of the OP - What, did I derail the constant stream of “The OP is a loathsome piece of shit” posts that it naturally evoked? Did I somehow impair the discourse on that subject? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bride-of-peace-hitchhiker-murdered-in-turkey/445061/152 "2008-04-14T22:23:20Z")
[QUOTE=Labrador Deceiver] So, your memory is so bad that you don’t remember the intial post, or the 7-page pitting that followed it? [Link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=385511) [/QUOTE] Oh, right, that was the drive by troll who posted a thread with the title “My baby died,” and then revealed in the post that it was false pregnancy – not the “death of an unborn child” (not there is any such _thing_ as an “unborn child”), but a false pregnancy with no fetus at all – yeah that little wuss needed to man up (if his story was even true, which I doubt). His “baby” didn’t “die.” _Nothing_ died, There was no fetus. If he was for real, then he was just a sympathy whore and his thread title was insult to parents who have really lost children. Swing and a miss, dude. I don’t laugh at people getting murdered. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bride-of-peace-hitchhiker-murdered-in-turkey/445061/153 "2008-04-14T22:24:55Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] No, it turned into a discussion of ideology because some of the posters here claimed the OP’s sentiments were typical of conservatism. [/QUOTE] It BEGAN as a discussion of ideology. Read the OP. Maybe you should be pissed off at **LonesomePolecat**? He’s the one saying odious things in the name of conservatism. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bride-of-peace-hitchhiker-murdered-in-turkey/445061/154 "2008-04-14T22:51:55Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] As for boo-hooing because I took exception to this aspect of the OP - What, did I derail the constant stream of “The OP is a loathsome piece of shit” posts that it naturally evoked? Did I somehow impair the discourse on that subject? [/quote] You didn’t take exception to this aspect of the OP. You attributed that aspect of the OP to conservatives in general. How is ignorance supposed to be fought around here if one lets egregious characterizations like that slide by unchallenged? > [@Pochacco](#): > > Maybe you should be pissed off at LonesomePolecat? He’s the one saying odious things in the name of conservatism. No, he said odious things about a girl who was murdered, and he cast aspersions on liberals in the main. He does not speak for conservatives in general, as is obvious from the postings of the other conservatives in this very thread. You and **Hentor** tried to ascribe his way of thinking to conservatives in general and therein lies the rub. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bride-of-peace-hitchhiker-murdered-in-turkey/445061/155 "2008-04-14T23:13:00Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Oh, right, that was the drive by troll who posted a thread with the title “My baby died,” and then revealed in the post that it was false pregnancy – not the “death of an unborn child” (not there is any such _thing_ as an “unborn child”), but a false pregnancy with no fetus at all – yeah that little wuss needed to man up (if his story was even true, which I doubt). His “baby” didn’t “die.” _Nothing_ died, There was no fetus. If he was for real, then he was just a sympathy whore and his thread title was insult to parents who have really lost children. [/QUOTE] Really? That doesn’t really explain why you had your ass handed to you, nor why you characterized your post as a “mistake” & issued an apology in both threads. It’s also interesting that you didn’t think the OP was a troll at the time. > [@](#): > > Swing and a miss, dude. I don’t laugh at people getting murdered. Kinda hard to miss when I wasn’t aiming there to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bride-of-peace-hitchhiker-murdered-in-turkey/445061/156 "2008-04-14T23:40:56Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] You didn’t take exception to this aspect of the OP. You attributed that aspect of the OP to conservatives in general. How is ignorance supposed to be fought around here if one lets egregious characterizations like that slide by unchallenged? [/QUOTE] Aww. I hope my meanness didn’t make the baby Rovus cry. As I said before, if you don’t like it, police your party. When Ann Coulter is no longer able to sell books, when Glenn Beck and Michael Savage and Rush Limbaugh are no longer on the air… when there is no more market for the right-wing hate machine, I’ll regret it if I should ever say anything mean again. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bride-of-peace-hitchhiker-murdered-in-turkey/445061/157 "2008-04-14T23:50:24Z")
[QUOTE=Labrador Deceiver] Really? That doesn’t really explain why you had your ass handed to you, nor why you characterized your post as a “mistake” & issued an apology in both threads. It’s also interesting that you didn’t think the OP was a troll at the time. [/quote] My mistake was just saying it in the wrong forum, I wasn’t wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bride-of-peace-hitchhiker-murdered-in-turkey/445061/158 "2008-04-15T00:18:39Z")
Interesting. That isn’t what you said at the time: [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] It was stupid for me to try to analyze or critique anything that was written in a state of grief. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bride-of-peace-hitchhiker-murdered-in-turkey/445061/159 "2008-04-15T00:35:06Z")
[QUOTE=Labrador Deceiver] Interesting. That isn’t what you said at the time: [/QUOTE] It was stupid to do it _in that forum_, but I don’t believe there was ever any real state of grief. Your allegation that was rude to someone who was “grieving for an unborn child” is still inaccurate. He was grieving a false pregnancy, which is dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bride-of-peace-hitchhiker-murdered-in-turkey/445061/160 "2008-04-15T00:43:35Z")
[QUOTE=Labrador Deceiver] Really? That doesn’t really explain why you had your ass handed to you, nor why you characterized your post as a “mistake” & issued an apology in both threads. It’s also interesting that you didn’t think the OP was a troll at the time. Kinda hard to miss when I wasn’t aiming there to begin with. [/QUOTE] So he had his ass handed to him already. Is he going to have to fight the same battle every time the shit is brought up? Give it a rest. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bride-of-peace-hitchhiker-murdered-in-turkey/445061.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bride-of-peace-hitchhiker-murdered-in-turkey/445061.md?page=9)