# Bridge: 7 No Trumps baby! **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 9, 2016, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229 "2016-08-09T09:47:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2017, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/281 "2017-10-01T02:39:01Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > No you don’t get to assume the worst possible play. For example in running a suit, you assume play is from the top so with AKx2 in your hand and one card outstanding, you assume A is lead first not 2. One "worst "assumption you do make is you may not first pull trump after an unspecified claim so if there’s an outstanding trump it often takes a trip by roughing one of your winners even if it could have been extracted. None of what you said contradicts what I said. Are you unaware of the definition of the word plausible? Heck, I even qualified it further by mentioning that how bad a play would be plausible would depend on the strength of the field. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/282 "2017-10-12T16:07:49Z")
After a three-week hiatus, I logged into PlayOK. I was hoping for some easy hands to warm up with. Instead, tragedy struck on the very first hand: ♠ - ❤ AQJ82 ♦ QJ96 ♣ AT85 Everyone is vulnerable. RHO deals and passes. You’re playing SAYC with RKCB. You open One Heart. The auction continues One Spade, Two Diamonds, Two Spades; back to you. What call do you make? ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/283 "2017-10-12T17:09:36Z")
I don’t know SAYC, but my reading of the situation is that evidently the opponents have a big fit in spades, and your side have a reasonable fit in diamonds. You can’t possibly play in NTs as you could lose all the spade tricks, so I don’t think it would be implausible to bid 5D. That has the three advantages of agreeing diamonds as trumps (presumably your partner should read your hand as 5-4 H-D), telling partner you don’t have a huge amount of points for your opening bid, and making it as hard as possible for the opponents to compete for the contract and/or reach slam in spades. LHO might bid 5S, which may not make, or they might pass. Not sure how your side can get to a slam if there is one (e.g. partner holds xxx xx AKxxxx KQ). ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/284 "2017-10-12T17:26:39Z")
**septimus** I would bid 3S at this point. I expect to have a good shot at six diamonds. The only way to bail out at five is to have partner bid 3NT and then refuse to cue bid when I pull to 4D. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/285 "2017-10-12T18:28:13Z")
> [@K364](#): > > **septimus** I would bid 3S at this point. I expect to have a good shot at six diamonds. The only way to bail out at five is to have partner bid 3NT and then refuse to cue bid when I pull to 4D. This. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/286 "2017-10-12T18:35:25Z")
I too would bid 3S. Note that partner may still have four Hearts. 3S is a forcing bid agreeing diamonds, but 4H is likely easier to make than 5D. Here’s my own error: LHO opens 1H. Partner overcalls 1S. RHO bids 2C. I’m holding SATxxx H- DKJTxxxx Cx. I jump to 4S. Opponents bid on to 6C making 7. I should have jumped to 5S. ---
**Author:** ![merrick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@merrick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/merrick)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/287 "2017-10-12T18:57:03Z")
I’m with **K364** - your hand has too much playing strength not to investigate slam. 3S looks the natural way to continue (unless it promises a Spade stop - you don’t want to end up in 6NT!) But I wouldn’t expect partner to start cue-bidding CK or HK after 3S - 3NT - 4D. I think that to get to 6D, you’d have to bid 4C over partner’s 3NT or 5C over 4D. 3C (assuming it’s forcing) is worth considering, the trouble is it’s asking LHO to bid 3S, and I’m not sure how you go on after 3C - (3S) - 4D (or even 3C - (3S) - 4H!) ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/288 "2017-10-12T19:23:56Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I too would bid 3S. Note that partner may still have four Hearts. 3S is a forcing bid agreeing diamonds, but 4H is likely easier to make than 5D. > > Here’s my own error: > > LHO opens 1H. Partner overcalls 1S. RHO bids 2C. I’m holding SATxxx H- DKJTxxxx Cx. I jump to 4S. Opponents bid on to 6C making 7. I should have jumped to 5S. You let them play 6C? I wouldn’t ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/289 "2017-10-12T21:10:00Z")
> [@K364](#): > > You let them play 6C? I wouldn’t That was another mistake that hand. 7S went 2 off - a fine save against a stone cold 7C, losing DA and CA. But hindsight’s a wonderful thing, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/290 "2017-10-12T21:58:31Z")
Quartz - so true. It makes a difference as to what type of game. At IMP’s you always take out insurance by bidding on - you can’t get hurt too much and if their slam is making you’ll get burned big time if you don’t. At Match Points you have to make the correct decision. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/291 "2017-10-13T02:31:31Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > … > ♠ - > ❤ AQJ82 > ♦ QJ96 > ♣ AT85 > > … You open One Heart. The auction continues One Spade, Two Diamonds, Two Spades; back to you. > > What call do you make? > [@K364](#): > > **septimus** I would bid 3S at this point. I expect to have a good shot at six diamonds. The only way to bail out at five is to have partner bid 3NT and then refuse to cue bid when I pull to 4D. This is what I did! After my Three Spades it went Double, 3 NT, Pass. I bid Four Diamonds; it went Pass, Five Diamonds, Pass. I said Pass. Making Seven. Partner held ♠ QT9 ❤ 3 ♦ AK872 ♣ KQ42 The consolation was that we lost only 0.3 Imps! [Out of 20 tables, only two bid and made six.](https://www.playok.com/en/hand.phtml?hid=4119662) One stopped in Four Diamonds; one Played Seven Diamonds Doubled down four! :eek: I asked partner where I went wrong; he said that I should have bid 4 NT (RKCB) immediately over Two Spades. With a void??? But how should the auction have gone? Should partner cue-bid Clubs without the Ace? His NT bid made me worry about wasted values in Spades. When partner bids Two Diamonds, my hand is huge … but my Three Spade bid was very strong. (If I was just trying for 3NT I’d have passed 3NT. Did partner think the Double of 3 Spades scared me???) Should I call this 100% partner’s fault? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![merrick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@merrick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/merrick)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/292 "2017-10-13T08:17:20Z")
I think it’s just a very hard hand to bid. I agree that Blackwood from your side is pointless with the void. You might have tried 4C over 3NT to show CA (but then partner doesn’t know about the Diamond support). Partner might have realised after 4D that if all you wanted was to play 5D you could have bid it direct instead of 3S, so you must be looking for slam. Then he might have tried Blackwood himself (if you only have 1 ace he can stop in 5D) - but for all he knows there are two Spades to lose off the top. To bid six with confidences, partner needs to find out about CA and the spade control - or you need to find out about CK and the Heart singleton - and with opponents crowding the bidding space that’s just not easy. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/293 "2017-10-13T09:18:59Z")
My 3 Spades was ambiguous, but when I follow up by bidding 4 Diamonds, I think I’m promising spade control. Partner has much more than needed for his 2 Diamond bid. Perhaps 4 Clubs would have been better instead of his 3 NT bid, especially since his spade stopper is so weak. Perhaps I should have bid 4 Clubs instead of 4 Diamonds — I think he could then infer I almost certainly have Diamond support. But I try to keep auctions straightforward, and didn’t pass up the chance to make a forcing bid in Diamonds. Do other Dopers play Bridge on-line? Any good sites other than BBase and PlayOK? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/294 "2017-10-13T11:03:23Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I asked partner where I went wrong; he said that I should have bid 4 NT (RKCB) immediately over Two Spades. With a void??? Partner is partially wrong. There’s a convention called [Voidwood or Exclusion Blackwood](https://www.bridgehands.com/E/Exclusion_Blackwood_Voidwood.htm). A bid of 4S, not 4NT would be required. Partner should respond according to your usual convention - using 1430 RKCB your partner responds 5D showing DAK. I’m not sure how you get to 7D from there. 5N would ask for partner’s lowest King (excluding the king of trumps and implicitly excluding the king of the void suit), but a response of 6H commits you to 7D missing the king of clubs. ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/295 "2017-10-13T15:44:02Z")
Yes, partner should have bid 4C rather than 3NT - it’s IMPs and 5/6 diamonds must be cold whereas 3NT isn’t guaranteed. ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/296 "2017-10-13T17:59:00Z")
BTW, I definitely think that the 3S cue bid guarantees diamond support. With other types of powerful hands don’t cue bid but bid fourth suit. The only time 3S asks about playing in NT is when you’ve bid a few suits up to the 3 level without finding a major suit fit. IMO ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/297 "2017-10-30T22:49:06Z")
Well roger me sideways with a dustpan. I’ve just come back from an individual event, and while the international-level members of the club were away competing elsewhere, a lot of the expert players were there. And I came top! By 5%: I scored over 68% and the next player scored 63%. I made a hash of only one of the hands I played, but where I really scored was in defence. Killer leads, killer defence. We defeated many contracts, and defeated them by greater margins than did others. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/298 "2017-10-31T00:45:32Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Well roger me sideways with a dustpan. I’ve just come back from an individual event, and while the international-level members of the club were away competing elsewhere, a lot of the expert players were there. And I came top! By 5%: I scored over 68% and the next player scored 63%. Congratulations! ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/299 "2017-10-31T13:33:26Z")
Thank you. It was 24 boards so I had 24 partners over the evening. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/300 "2017-11-02T14:00:32Z")
Congratulations, **Quartz**! ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I had two bidding mishaps in my last session. We’ve agreed SAYC (with a few specific exceptions like RKCB and Inverted Minors) but AFAICT partner has never even Googled SAYC. :smack: Vul against not in 2nd seat I hold ♠ AJ632 ❤ - ♦ AQ5 ♣ AQ965 My partner doesn’t like it, but I usually open 1 Club with 5-5 blacks. Perhaps 1 Spade is preferable here since I have plenty strength to bid 1S, 3C and then 4C but I still opened 1 Club. (What do other Dopers do with 5-5 blacks?) Partner responded 2 NT with ♠ Q87 ❤ A43 ♦ K64 ♣ K732 Perhaps 2NT here almost guarantees 3-3-3-4 specifically, but he’s jumped in NT with livelier hands. The entire auction was - - - Pass 1♣ Pass 2NT Pass 3♠ Pass 3NT Pass 4NT Pass 5♦ Pass 6♦ Pass 6♠ Pass Pass Pass I decided 4NT — quantitative raise, but please bid a suit if you accept — was the simplest way to proceed, especially since partner and I often disagree about bid’s meanings. (I imagine there’s a better bid in a well-practiced partnership.) When he bid 5D I thought he might have something like Qx - Axx - KJxxx - Kxx with 6D our best slam. Instead, his approach is to show Aces when he accepts. (He even said “why would I bid a new suit when we’ve already bid two suits?” Is that valid?) Six spades was a good result with 15 out of 20 pairs stopping in game. :smack: ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ With nobody vulnerable, I’m in 4th chair and the auction starts Pass Pass 1 Spade. I overcall Two Hearts with ♠ J874 ❤ AJ432 ♦ KQ5 ♣ A That ends the auction since partner passes with ♠ A5 ❤ KT76 ♦ J62 ♣ T853 We made three overtricks. (Lost only 2.5 imps since most pairs missed the game.) Partner volunteered that he was to blame; and I agree that the “Law of Total Tricks” suggests a 3H bid with his hand — if we don’t make 3H then (from his p.o.v.) the opponents probably make 3S. But I have enough to Double first and then show Hearts, and would probably have done so if I had a doubleton in the unbid clubs instead of a singleton. Dopers comments? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229.md?page=16)