# Bridge: 7 No Trumps baby! **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 9, 2016, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229 "2016-08-09T09:47:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/441 "2018-02-24T11:45:40Z")
> [@merrick](#): > > **amarone** Is that a SAYC convention that 1C may be 3 but the 2C rebid promises 6? > In Acol, 2C would be asking to be passed. (Not that I’d expect an uncontested 1C - P - 1NT - P very often. If partner has only enough points for 1NT and no suit for 1D or 1H, then opponents have about half the pack and length in at least one red suit.) I play 2/1, but think SAYC is the same in this auction - yes, 2C (almost always) shows 6. As you say, this sequence is not very likely. Opponents have at least 9 hearts and about half the points, so they are not keeping quiet. Rebidding 3C might work better than 2C. I rejected it as a) I don’t want partner to bid 3NT with a balanced 8-count, and b) we will definitely miss a spade fit. If I do get to bid 2C, I expect opponents to bid and now can bid 2S without its being a reverse. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/442 "2018-03-04T03:59:46Z")
Had to call a director at the Regional Gold rush pairs game in Williamsburg today over this: I was East not vulnerable with: ♤: 652 ❤: A ♢: K876532 ♧: 74 North (vulnerable) passes. I bid 3♢ South thought and thought and finally passed after about 30 seconds. Partner passed and North bid 3♤. They ended up in 3NT making 4. North held: ♤: AJT43 ❤: T32 ♢: Q94 ♧: QJ My partner and I argued that this bid was based on North reading South’s long pause as values and thus bidding on illegal information. The director agreed and the opps did not argue though they glared at us for complaining. I think it was the right thing to do. We came in first for the round. ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/443 "2018-03-04T04:28:34Z")
Very unethical call by North. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/444 "2018-03-04T04:35:51Z")
> [@K364](#): > > Very unethical call by North. Yes. The director was very harsh to them and deservedly so. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/445 "2018-03-04T10:08:36Z")
Yes. you are most definitely not allowed to use unauthorised information. ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/446 "2018-03-04T17:30:26Z")
I haven’t played duplicate for years, but i believe that if the dispute “went to committee”, the committee was instructed to allow the questionable call only if three out of four good players would make the same call. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/447 "2018-03-04T18:29:38Z")
Here’s a hand that we fluffed yesterday. Playing standard Acol, 4 card majors, weak NT. North held S:xx H:xxxxx D:QJx C:Q9x and passed. South held S:A H:A D:AT987 C:AJTxxx and opened 1C. The response was 1H. South rebid 2C and the auction ended. 11 tricks were made. Where did we go wrong? And another: North held S:xx H:ATxx D:KJxx C:Axx and South S:Kxx H:x D:A9x C:KQxxxx. The bidding went 1C - 1D - 2C - Pass. 11 tricks are cold; 12 tricks made because the diamond Queen was doubleton. Oops. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/448 "2018-03-04T23:01:40Z")
**Biotop** : [Spoiler]Now a Life Master!!! Woo Hoo!!![/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![merrick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@merrick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/merrick)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/449 "2018-03-05T02:08:32Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Here’s a hand that we fluffed yesterday. Playing standard Acol, 4 card majors, weak NT. > > North held S:xx H:xxxxx D:QJx C:Q9x and passed. South held S:A H:A D:AT987 C:AJTxxx and opened 1C. The response was 1H. South rebid 2C and the auction ended. 11 tricks were made. Where did we go wrong? > > And another: > > North held S:xx H:ATxx D:KJxx C:Axx and South S:Kxx H:x D:A9x C:KQxxxx. The bidding went 1C - 1D - 2C - Pass. 11 tricks are cold; 12 tricks made because the diamond Queen was doubleton. Oops. I’ll take a shot at this - in the first one, South is too strong for his simple 2C rebid, which shows no extra values other than the 5th Club. Yes, partner could be 4-6-2-1 with no entries, but the hand is so good that you could easily miss game. If South reverses with 2D, the North hand looks a whole lot better. The second one is harder - South has a Club more than he’s shown, but not the points for a jump to 3C. North has a flat 12-count opposite a probable 13-15 - 5C looks unlikely (which would make 3C pointless) and 2NT is very risky with nothing in Spades. Probably he should have bid 3C even though it’s big odds-on to be passed, and South can make another effort. And 5C is hardly cold unless opponents lead a Spade up to your King - at the least you need one of AS and QD right, plus you need to arrange a Spade ruff in dummy, or get lucky with Diamonds 3-3. So it’s a marginal decision that resulted in missing a thin game, Congratulations **Biotop**! ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/450 "2018-03-05T03:36:21Z")
The second one… I don’t what’s happening on the other side of the Atlantic, but even when I played years ago everybody bid like a maniac. Responder with 12 opposite a Opener with a good 6 card suit would result in 3NT or 5C pretty much all the time. Anyway, on this hand Responder HAS to take another bid. HAS to. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/451 "2018-03-05T03:47:15Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Here’s a hand that we fluffed yesterday. Playing standard Acol, 4 card majors, weak NT. > > North held S:xx H:xxxxx D:QJx C:Q9x and passed. South held S:A H:A D:AT987 C:AJTxxx and opened 1C. The response was 1H. South rebid 2C and the auction ended. 11 tricks were made. Where did we go wrong? South should rebid 2D, a one-round force. North will bid 3C (things will be different if you play Lebensohl over reverses, but I will ignore that) and South can bid 3D to show the 5-6 shape. North now knows that while minimum in points, they are all working. > [@](#): > > North held S:xx H:ATxx D:KJxx C:Axx and South S:Kxx H:x D:A9x C:KQxxxx. The bidding went 1C - 1D - 2C - Pass. 11 tricks are cold; 12 tricks made because the diamond Queen was doubleton. Oops. South cannot meekly pass with 12 points opposite an opener, and AC opposite a long club suit. I would bid 2H, which is forcing, and North bids 2NT and South 3NT. Mind you, I would have responded 1H in the first place and then 2D over 2C, ending up in the same place. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/452 "2018-03-05T07:20:30Z")
In Both hands 2C could have been as little as 10 points - an ACOL light opener, ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/453 "2018-03-05T08:29:47Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > North held S:xx H:xxxxx D:QJx C:Q9x and passed. South held S:A H:A D:AT987 C:AJTxxx and opened 1C. The response was 1H. South rebid 2C and the auction ended. 11 tricks were made. Where did we go wrong? South’s hand is HUGE. He must choose between 2D or 3D as his rebid. With points all in “Quacks” I might have passed North’s hand initially. > [@Quartz](#): > > North held S:xx H:ATxx D:KJxx C:Axx and South S:Kxx H:x D:A9x C:KQxxxx. The bidding went 1C - 1D - 2C - Pass. 11 tricks are cold; 12 tricks made because the diamond Queen was doubleton. Oops. As others said, game by responder is almost mandatory with 12 hcp and a fit. I might rebid 2H (though it strongly suggests 5 diamonds). If South tries 2NT we get to 3NT which is almost cold. I think 12 opposite 11 may make 3NT about as often as 25 opposite 0. Congratulations to **Biotop**! You’re now **Life Master _for Life_** , unlike a Chess Master who can get demoted. I made ACBL Life Master in 1972 but would be surely be demoted by now — if that were an option — given my recent playing level. :o ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/454 "2018-03-05T12:13:19Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > In Both hands 2C could have been as little as 10 points - an ACOL light opener, That adds more weight to why opener should not rebid 2C on the first hand. If you are opening 10-counts, then there are pluses and minuses. One of the minuses is that you get to more bad games (or miss lots of good ones). But as the 2C rebid can be up to about 15 points, you have to move on as responder with 12 points and a fit. If the opening can be 10 points with litte extra distribution, then I would amend my recommendation for opener’s third bid. After 1C - 1D; 2C - 2H, opener needs to bid 3NT with the actual hand. Another possibility opposite light openers is that you raise 2C to 3C and opener will proceed with a decent 12. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/455 "2018-03-08T15:51:23Z")
Vul vs Non at IMP scoring, you hold ♠ 7 ❤ A84 ♦ AK8654 ♣ AK8 Playing SAYC, in second seat you open One Diamond; partner responds One Spade. What call do you now make? ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/456 "2018-03-08T18:01:15Z")
I don’t know SAYC, but I don’t know anything much, so no great loss there :). My thoughts are that although your hand is shapely, you should consider responding in NTs because 2C or 2H will probably be taken as 4 cards in that suit. Also, partner’s spade bid suggests he holds some sort of stopper in the suit, so it could actually be the right contract. Since you have 6 diamonds, would 2D get that across? Obviously it’s not a very helpful bid and I think it stands too much risk of being passed out. On the other hand, jumping in diamonds isn’t likely to help your partner much either. On balance I think I’d go with 3NT, you need to jump to show your extra values but I don’t think 2NT is going to cut it, if partner is minimum for his response you might miss a good game. If partner is middling it’s unlikely you miss a slam, if they are strong they should bid on. What say the experts? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/457 "2018-03-08T18:40:59Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Vul vs Non at IMP scoring, you hold > ♠ 7 > ❤ A84 > ♦ AK8654 > ♣ AK8 > Playing SAYC, in second seat you open One Diamond; partner responds One Spade. What call do you now make? As I see it, the choices are: (1) Two No Trump. The hand is too good for this; anyway I avoid 1st round NTs like this with a singleton. (2) Three clubs. I play very close to the system Charles Goren recommended. This establishes a game force. Forcing to game is quite reasonable — after all, a Three No Trump call certainly does also. I’d prefer to have four clubs for the bid, but I see no sequel which inconveniences us. Note that as three-card suits go, AKx is pretty good. (3) Three Diamonds. Any 2-level bid is an underbid, but so is 3D. Many of the 18-pt hands that might bid 3D would bid 2NT instead. Any way, this is not just “an 18 pt hand”. _ **You have three first-round controls and three second-round controls.** _ (4) Three No Trump. This has the virtue that it might be the best contract. I’ve no idea what this bids shows in SAYC or Goren. A good 20 hcp balanced? 19-20 with likely a single spade (as this hand)? (5) Four Diamonds. This is much better on values than 3D but shows, e.g. an 8-bagger rather than lots of high cards. You’ve bypassed your plausible game. _ **If partner had responded in Hearts instead of Spades, you’d bid Three Clubs so fast they’d call the Director!** _ But do you make the same power-house bid with the singleton opposite partner? (\* - If it turns out that partner’s spades are all small cards, slam prospects beckon. Is there some convention for opener to show the singleton later??) ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/458 "2018-03-08T21:41:35Z")
Good analysis septimus. I agree 3C is best, but not after the 1S response. I just might make the 3D underbid. 3NT shows a hand that lies between 1NT and 2NT openers: a good 18 to bad 20 ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/459 "2018-03-08T23:10:20Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Vul vs Non at IMP scoring, you hold > ♠ 7 > ❤ A84 > ♦ AK8654 > ♣ AK8 > Playing SAYC, in second seat you open One Diamond; partner responds One Spade. What call do you now make? I don’t play SAYC but I’d jump to 3 Diamonds, showing 6+ cards and 16+ points. Playing strong 2s I’d open 2♦ on that hand; make the diamonds a 7 card suit or otherwise slightly strengthen the hand and I might well open 2♣ if we were playing 3x weak 2s. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/460 "2018-03-09T00:09:58Z")
If you rebid Three Clubs, partner’s next call is Four Clubs. I’ll wait a day and post a complete Spoiler. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229.md?page=24)