# Bridge: 7 No Trumps baby! **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 9, 2016, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229 "2016-08-09T09:47:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/761 "2018-07-02T17:18:58Z")
Interesting as always, thanks both. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/762 "2018-07-03T03:19:20Z")
Since a frequent Pass would otherwise make it easier for opponents to bid in 2nd or 3rd chair, we complemented the Strong Pass(\*) with a Weak No Trump: 9-12 hcp. To keep things simple we rejected the variable NT: 10-12 vul, 8-11 non-vul. (Through experimentation we learned that 8 hcp was definitely _not enough_ when vulnerable.) (\* - In one variation the opening Pass wasn’t an unconditional force: it showed either 0-9 hcp or a balanced 16-19 hcp.) What a trip on Memory Lane! It’s been almost 50 years since I thought about this old bidding system which, IIRC, we deployed only in very few tournaments. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/763 "2018-08-09T17:36:13Z")
This thread became too old to display. Can’t have that! 🆒 I’ll show a very bizarre hand I was just dealt; surely you won’t bid it as poorly as I did. Imp scoring. Both sides vulnerable. ♠ KQJ42 ❤ AKQJT ♦ 4 ♣ 86 LHO opens One Spade; Partner overcalls Two Diamonds; RHO passes. I bid Two Hearts — probably already a mistake. Partner bids Three Hearts, with opponents silent. I rebid Three Spades — at least partner won’t pass. Partner bids Three No Trump. What call do you make now? ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/764 "2018-08-09T18:18:57Z")
I pass and play in 3NT. 4H may not have an easy play. For one thing, you won’t be able to ruff out your low spades without an overruff by RHO. If there is a spade lead, my hand immediately contributes 7 tricks. If there is a club lead and we are set I’m prepared to apologize. ---
**Author:** ![merrick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@merrick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/merrick)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/765 "2018-08-09T18:55:01Z")
I would pass. You’re not making slam, and you’re unlikely to make more tricks in Hearts than in No-Trumps. In partner’s place, I would take your 3S as showing a Spade stop and offering a choice between 4H and 3NT. Partner should have 11+ points for his vulnerable 2-level overcall, his points are over LHO’s and he wouldn’t bid 3H and 3NT with solid Diamonds and nothing outside, so there will be a Club stop. Even if partner has something really unfortunate (e.g. xx xx AQJxxx Kxx), 3NT still has chances. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/766 "2018-08-09T19:37:54Z")
I’m glad you guys passed 3NT. I was kicking myself for timidity since 6 NT makes. :eek: Partner’s hand was ♠ A65 ❤ 643 ♦ AKJT2 ♣ K9 Partner had a strong hand for simple overcall; should he bid more — perhaps 2S over 2H? Opening bidder had five spades and the other nine high card points. If he passes, partner will open 1 NT presumably; but whatever he does the auction might be a challenge for our primitive (little-discussed) intuitive methods. I was interested in slam though I had only one Ace; and bid Four Hearts over Three No Trump to give partner another chance to bid. (By taking him out of 3NT, my 3S becomes clear slam try, no?) Four hearts made only four after spade ruff, club Ace, another spade ruff. But 6NT makes easily. Getting to slam may be near-impossible; we’d have to assume opener was super-light for one thing. Not an interesting problem at our table, I guess, but might lead to more interesting and instructive auctions if opponents are silent. ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/767 "2018-08-09T20:44:37Z")
Did the 1S opening bid keep you out of six spades going down on the bad break? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2018, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/768 "2018-08-09T22:05:23Z")
Probably. 🙂 Eight pairs were in 6H or 6S going down, often with a club lead (in at least one case after a lead-directing double of Gerber 4C). Without a club lead 6S can make; three pairs bid and made slam, including one in 7NT Doubled! ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2018, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/769 "2018-08-09T23:32:29Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Partner’s hand was. Might you not overcall 1NT on that hand? Then Stayman then you bid 4N (as partner’s points must be in the minors) and partner raises to 6? ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/770 "2018-08-10T01:12:55Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > … > Partner had a strong hand for simple overcall; should he bid more — perhaps 2S over 2H? Yes for sure. The simple raise to 3H was a gross underbid. Even a raise to 4H is conservative. A cue bid of 2S is called for on such a strong hand - the club king has full value sitting behind the opening bidder. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/771 "2018-08-10T05:55:26Z")
1 NT intially seems reasonable to me, though I wouldn’t do it with a single spade stopper and good alternatives. Change the hand a little – 2-3-5-3 instead of 3-3-5-2 – and he could/should start with a take-out double, then show diamonds, perhaps. > [@K364](#): > > Yes for sure. The simple raise to 3H was a gross underbid. Even a raise to 4H is conservative. A cue bid of 2S is called for on such a strong hand - the club king has full value sitting behind the opening bidder. 🙂 Glad to hear this! I may have been over-bold to think of slam with my “beautiful” 5-5 but (a) super-light opening bids are not too unusual at PlayOK, (b) my 3S-4H _was_ a slam move. Since partner knows his Kx of clubs is exposed he might try a NT slam. (I thought of bidding 4NT over 3NT.) ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/772 "2018-08-10T10:32:33Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > 1 NT intially seems reasonable to me, though I wouldn’t do it with a single spade stopper and good alternatives. Partner is bidding 3N with a single club stopper… ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/773 "2018-08-10T13:55:47Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Partner is bidding 3N with a single club stopper… Yes, and he might open One No Trump with no stopper at all in some suit. Bidding One No Trump _ **over an enemy One Spade bid** _ is a different matter. When I bid Three Spades, I think partner may assume I have at least something in Spades. This message was canceled when I pull 3NT to 4H. I don’t know what my 3S bid shows—certainly not length in spades—I just didn’t know how to proceed. ---
**Author:** ![merrick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@merrick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/merrick)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/774 "2018-08-10T18:11:37Z")
I’ve no real idea what 4H over 3NT over 3S would show. If I had to guess I’d say slam interest with long Hearts and _short_ Spades (3S being an early cue-bid) and with 3 Hearts and controls in all the other suits I’d be very interested, but as **K364** said, your partner has already badly underbid the hand with 3H. If he bids 4H (which is what I would have done), you probably end up going down in 6H :rolleyes: If he bids 2S you have a better chance of finding the NT slam, though you still have to stay out of your 5-3 Heart fit (and partner is likely to want to play in Hearts so you can ruff out the Diamonds). Whether to overcall 1NT or 2D with partner’s hand depends on system and style. Some people insist that 1NT is mandatory with a balanced 15-count and a Spade stop, others play the 1NT overcall as 16+, or believe in showing your strong suit when the strength is concentrated. In this case, if partner bid 1NT you would know at once that opener was light, and then it would not only be much easier to reach the slam, but an early Spade ruff would be a more obvious threat to 6H. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/775 "2018-08-19T22:31:25Z")
Several times in this thread I have stated that one should not bid a grand unless you can count 13 tricks. Here’s what happened when I ignored my own advice. We were having a poor session (we thought), so decided to punt 7NT when I only knew of 12 tricks for certain. On a small club lead I was faced with: ♠ J4 ❤ T4 ♦ AK76532 ♣ 97 ♠ AK5 ❤ AKQ9632 ♦ 9 ♣ AJ RHO played ♣Q, taken by my ace. Nobody would lead away from a king against a grand, so RHO has ♣K. How to play this? If RHO has the long diamonds, I can squeeze him in the minors. If LHO has the long diamonds, I have a double squeeze. The double squeeze is very slightly better odds, but sounds much more impressive, so I go for that line. I will cash one spade in case of singleton queen, then all my hearts throwing four diamonds and a club from dummy. I then cash AD, then the king. RHO must keep KC, so comes down to singleton spade, so I discard JC. LHO must keep the diamond, so also comes down to singleton spade. A spade to my king and the 5 is now good. Except… …when I cashed AH, LHO showed out. I can pick up JH, of course, but going to dummy in diamonds destroyed the communication for any squeeze. Down one and zero matchpoints. LHO did have the long diamonds so the double squeeze would have worked, had hearts not been 4-0. As it happened, we were running at 60% and this knocked us down to 56.4% Fortunately, it was one of those days where all the scores were bunched around average and we managed to come first, or I might still be intensive care after what partner would have done to me. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/776 "2018-08-20T08:13:04Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > RHO played ♣Q, taken by my ace. Nobody would lead away from a king against a grand, If you have KQ, playing the Queen can ask for attitude. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/777 "2018-08-20T11:49:06Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > If you have KQ, playing the Queen can ask for attitude. I should have said that LHO led a small club to RHO’s queen. ---
**Author:** ![merrick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@merrick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/merrick)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/778 "2018-08-20T18:27:26Z")
First up, congratulations on coming up with the double-squeeze line at the table (thinking it through on the page, I got as far as deciding you needed a minor-suit squeeze on RHO). Second, a question - when you said you punted 7NT with only 12 tricks visible, were you referring to bidding a grand rather than a small slam, or a match-point decision to bid 7NT rather than 7H? 7NT is not a great contract (the Club lead gives it hope, but on anything else it’s in real trouble), but 7H looks like it has the required 13 tricks to take. But you said you were the only pair to go down - so did no-one in the room bid 7H or is there some way to make it that doesn’t require a second-sight finesse in Hearts? ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/779 "2018-08-20T21:17:00Z")
In 7H you have to ruff a spade and then take a first round finesse of the trump jack. Or do the double squeeze. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/780 "2018-08-21T11:06:56Z")
> [@merrick](#): > > Second, a question - when you said you punted 7NT with only 12 tricks visible, were you referring to bidding a grand rather than a small slam, or a match-point decision to bid 7NT rather than 7H? Grand versus small. I’m always bidding 6NT at matchpoints. But if I am bidding a grand, I should bid 7H as that would get all or nearly all the matchpoints anyway and has some extra chances, such as the spade ruff. > [@](#): > > 7NT is not a great contract (the Club lead gives it hope, but on anything else it’s in real trouble), but 7H looks like it has the required 13 tricks to take. > > But you said you were the only pair to go down - so did no-one in the room bid 7H or is there some way to make it that doesn’t require a second-sight finesse in Hearts? Nobody else was in a grand of any sort. There is no way to make 7H other than be psychic and finesse for the heart jack on the first round of trumps. The club lead helps 7NT in that it indicates that the double squeeze might work. Without a club lead, the simple squeeze is better odds as it works against either opponent holding KQ clubs and the long diamond, whereas the double squeeze only works when RHO has clubs. If hearts are not 4-0, then the killer lead against 7NT is a diamond as that breaks up all squeezes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229.md?page=40)