# Bridge: 7 No Trumps baby! **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 9, 2016, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229 "2016-08-09T09:47:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 48
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/943 "2019-02-03T10:05:51Z")
Quite right. ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/944 "2019-02-03T15:50:07Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I had a couple of interesting hands this past week. > > On Tuesday I picked up S:x H:AKJTxxx D:A C:AKJT. I duly opened 2C. Partner held S:AJxxx H:Qxxx Dx C:xxx and responded 2S. A bit of dickering later we were in 7H which depended upon finding the Queen of Clubs. I led a club from dummy and spurned the finesse. I saw the 9 drop from LHO so crossed to dummy and led another club, again spurning the finesse. The queen dropped! > > Last night LHO opened a weak 2H non-vulnerable and partner doubled. I held H:AJT98 D:Kxx and left the double stand. We took them for 800, a clear top, despite there being a cold 3NT our way. There’s a lesson for us all: sitting behind the hand that tests a suit with the A or K, play 9 from 9xx ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/945 "2019-02-15T13:02:26Z")
Earlier this week, playing matchpoints, I picked up the strongest hand I have ever held, in terms of playing tricks. A AKQ10xxx AKQJx void. Partly for the fun of it, I opened 7H. If partner has any hearts, it is a great contract. Even if void, it makes when hearts are 3-3 or 4-2 with singleton jack, which is better than 50% (or you get the supposedly safe lead of a trump) as long as diamonds come home. Double from LHO, all pass. LHO tried to cash AC and partner put down Jxx xx 9xxxx Kxx. Alas, hearts were 4-0 so down I went. 7D is cold, of course, if declared by partner (2C - 2D will achieve that), but I don’t think it is the right contract at matchpoints. 7H outscores 7D a little more than 90% of the time, and surely lots of people will be in 7 on this hand. Several other people opened 7H, but not all were doubled. One pair got to 7D. Based on the results on the board, getting to 7H will average you a 83.75% score, bidding 7D averages 66% A side note: par on the hand was 7SX down 2 or 3. Nobody got there. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/946 "2019-02-15T13:30:05Z")
What a hand! How can 7H down one give a better score than 7D making? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/947 "2019-02-15T13:33:42Z")
And how do you get to 7D? Would 2C - 2D - 2H - 2N - 3D - 5D - 7D be a reasonable sequence? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/948 "2019-02-15T13:58:17Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > Earlier this week, playing matchpoints, I picked up the strongest hand I have ever held, in terms of playing tricks. A AKQ10xxx AKQJx void. … :eek: Back in the 1960’s I was an undergraduate and the Tuesday(?) U.C. Berkeley game was my first duplicate. Once or twice a fellow student and I kibitzed or helped director, stacked a hand (with a famous misfit from a book), and passed it out (“We’re running late; these cards have already been shuffled”). Are you sure something like that didn’t happen here? ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/949 "2019-02-15T14:02:38Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > Earlier this week, playing matchpoints, I picked up the strongest hand I have ever held, in terms of playing tricks. A AKQ10xxx AKQJx void. Partly for the fun of it, I opened 7H. If partner has any hearts, it is a great contract. Even if void, it makes when hearts are 3-3 or 4-2 with singleton jack, which is better than 50% (or you get the supposedly safe lead of a trump) as long as diamonds come home. > > Double from LHO, all pass. LHO tried to cash AC and partner put down Jxx xx 9xxxx Kxx. > > Alas, hearts were 4-0 so down I went. 7D is cold, of course, if declared by partner (2C - 2D will achieve that), but I don’t think it is the right contract at matchpoints. 7H outscores 7D a little more than 90% of the time, and surely lots of people will be in 7 on this hand. > > Several other people opened 7H, but not all were doubled. One pair got to 7D. Based on the results on the board, getting to 7H will average you a 83.75% score, bidding 7D averages 66% > > A side note: par on the hand was 7SX down 2 or 3. Nobody got there. Some hand -Did you get that in real life or online? A couple of years back in the UK an elderly woman dropped dead at the bridge table after picking up a 29 hcp hand. Way to go out. > **[Bridge champion collapsed and died after rare winning hand](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/10724713/Bridge-champion-collapsed-and-died-after-rare-winning-hand.html)** > > A veteran Bridge player who has held the number one title in Cornwall may have been overcome with excitement by her rare winning hand after she collapsed and died after claiming victory in a tournament ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/950 "2019-02-15T14:46:57Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Are you sure something like that didn’t happen here? I’m guessing that it was a goulash. It’s standard practice here that if a hand is passed out the first time its played it gets re-dealt as a goulash. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/951 "2019-02-15T15:09:34Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I’m guessing that it was a goulash. It’s standard practice here that if a hand is passed out the first time its played it gets re-dealt as a goulash. Remind me how a ghoulie goes, and maybe there are regional differences? It’s been years since I’ve played social bridge like this, but I remember taking a passed-out deal, stacking all four sorted hands together, shuffling exactly N times (was N = 1, 2, or 3? – I seem to remember it was 2, as it was more than 1, and probably not as many as 3?), then dealing out the hands again, but three cards at a time per player (or was it FOUR cards at a time?). ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/952 "2019-02-15T15:30:30Z")
Goulie assumes that the hands are sorted into suits. The four hands are stacked together and cut. Then dealt three, three, three, four cards at a time. There are variants to this. ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/953 "2019-02-15T15:32:12Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I’m guessing that it was a goulash. It’s standard practice here that if a hand is passed out the first time its played it gets re-dealt as a goulash. Goulash gives you wild distribution not powerhouse hands. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/954 "2019-02-15T15:41:51Z")
My mention of Bridge at Berkeley brought back memories. There were some very top-notch players who played bridge for money on campus for several years. Sometimes they played a goulash variation for money — _every hand was goulashed_. The rules: - First player must open if he has 13 hcp. - 2nd player must bid 4NT or higher. - When the auction is over, high bidder selects _whoever he wants to be his partner_! If necessary this player will swap seats to get into the dummy position. - If dealer opened the bidding and is selected to be dummy but has less than 13 hcp then, optionally, the hand is thrown in. - The chosen dummy says “accept” or “reject.” If he says “reject” dealer is playing for triple stakes! — against both defenders and dummy. Does anyone else remember this variation of Goulash? > [@amarone](#): > > Alas, hearts were 4-0 so down I went. Did you table your hand and say “Down one” when RHO showed out on the first round of trumps? If so, you _might_ have fallen for a ruse I witnessed in another money bridge game at the UCB student union. RHO, who showed out of trumps despite not being void and thereby scored Down One against a making slam is a name you might have heard of: [SPOILER]He went on to become a highly respected (and well-liked I guess) world championship-winning player, and is now deceased. But at the time he played regularly in the UCB, he was a speed-freak, eating dozens of pills daily.[SPOILER]No; I’ve decided not to post his name explicitly. But his name anagrammed is: Kelly Snare[/SPOILER][/SPOILER] ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/955 "2019-02-15T15:45:47Z")
> [@K364](#): > > Goulie assumes that the hands are sorted into suits. The four hands are stacked together and cut. Then dealt three, three, three, four cards at a time. There are variants to this. The variant used over here is fives then threes. > [@K364](#): > > Goulash gives you wild distribution not powerhouse hands. But a wild distribution can lead to a powerhouse. ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/956 "2019-02-15T16:11:54Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > The variant used over here is fives then threes. > > But a wild distribution can lead to a powerhouse. Yes, a 10 count 7-6 distribution is very powerful. But the hand in question had 23 high card. I can’t see how a passed out goulie is going to produce that. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/957 "2019-02-15T16:43:32Z")
> [@K364](#): > > Yes, a 10 count 7-6 distribution is very powerful. But the hand in question had 23 high card. I can’t see how a passed out goulie is going to produce that. Note that among 4-3-3-3 hands (from uniform random shuffles), a whopping 1 in 350 have 23 hcp or more. Among 7-5-1-0 hands, only 1 in 5000 have 23 hcp or more. (_ **Zero** _ of them have 25 hcp or more!) ETA: Yes I’d like to hear more from **amarone** about the “shuffling” at his duplicate club! ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/958 "2019-02-15T16:51:48Z")
Here’s an interesting tidbit from last night’s play. I accidentally called for a card from dummy and RHO immediately played. Dummy called, “You’re in hand partner” a smidge too late. The director was called and because the opposition were deemed to have accepted the lead I did not have the option of correcting my play. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/959 "2019-02-15T16:57:18Z")
> [@K364](#): > > I can’t see how a passed out goulie is going to produce that. It depends upon how the cards are sorted. Not everyone sorts them into SHDC order. Indeed, some players - at least one at my club - don’t sort their cards into suits but into high card order. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/960 "2019-02-15T17:18:31Z")
In response to several people, it was dealt by dealing machine in the local club duplicate. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/961 "2019-02-15T17:25:15Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > What a hand! How can 7H down one give a better score than 7D making? It can’t, of course. I was referring to the likely result, based on percentages, that you would get if you played the hand a gazillion times. Ignoring first trick ruffs, 7H is 90% and 7D 100% I looked at what was actually bid at all the tables in play. I took the actual matchpoints achieved by bidding 7H and 7D and multiplied by 10%, as that is the frequency of 7H down/7D make. Then I calculated the matchpoints each contract would score if 7H is making, and multiplied that by 90%. Then add the two together and that is the score you would expect on average on this hand by bidding 7H or 7D. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/962 "2019-02-15T17:26:45Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > And how do you get to 7D? Would 2C - 2D - 2H - 2N - 3D - 5D - 7D be a reasonable sequence? Yes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229.md?page=47) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229.md?page=49)