# Bridge: 7 No Trumps baby! **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 9, 2016, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229 "2016-08-09T09:47:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/983 "2019-02-27T10:32:22Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Just bid 4S. You LHO can be expected to have 13 HCP and you have 25 HCP. That leaves 2 HCP for partner and RHO - no room for any aces. LHO is not expected to have 13 HCP, he’s a decent player who knows when to open a shapely ten count. 4S seems fine to me in duplicate, but a teams game I don’t think you can give up on this hand so readily, could swing the match. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/984 "2019-02-27T11:55:21Z")
> [@Busy\_Scissors](#): > > LHO is not expected to have 13 HCP, he’s a decent player who knows when to open a shapely ten count. So do I, but I used expected in the proper sense. And LHO could have all the remaining 15 HCP. Even if LHO opened on 10, that leaves a whole 5 points between the other two hands. Remember that for a slam to make not only do you need your partner to have an ace but you need some way of getting to it. The ace of hearts is no problem but what if it were the ace of diamonds? > [@](#): > > 4S seems fine to me in duplicate, but a teams game I don’t think you can give up on this hand so readily, could swing the match. 4S may well go one down. After partner’s diamond response to your double, a brave alternative would be 3N. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/985 "2019-02-27T12:12:59Z")
This hand is from the current Bronze level bidding contest: ♠ AK532 ❤ 5 ♦ - ♣ AQT8643 You are not vulnerable and playing pairs. The quiz asks a different question about this hand, but my question is, how would you open this hand? How would you plan the bidding? I think I’d open 2C! Yes, despite only having 13 HCP: I cannot afford for partner to pass. Over a 2D or 2H or 2N response I rebid 3C, indicating the Devalued 2C. After a 2S or 3C response I bid 5D - Voidwood. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/986 "2019-02-27T16:40:39Z")
Has someone been tampering with all the shuffling machines? (Or maybe we really have passed through a membrane into an alternate reality.) > [@Busy\_Scissors](#): > > AKQJxx > Kx > K > AKQx > > Bidding opened 1H on your left … I’ll bid 2H if that’s strong and artificial and then 3S over 3D if that’s forcing. That you ask us makes me suspect partner did have an Ace, but how can I try for it without a big risk of playing 5S down 1? > [@Quartz](#): > > ♠ AK532 > ❤ 5 > ♦ - > ♣ AQT8643 > > … my question is, how would you open this hand? How would you plan the bidding? With the opponents having high cards _and_ distribution the risk of One Club being passed out is negligible. I bid Two Spades on the next round (and perhaps Three Spades next). Partner already has an idea what I have. If I make an artificial opening bid, we’ll be at the 4-level with less clarity. The opponents are likely to have shapely hands and compete, making an artificial sequence even less informative. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/987 "2019-02-27T18:09:47Z")
If you open 1C you’re likely to get overcalled and you may find yourself at the 4 or 5 level the next time you bid. E.g. 1C - 1H - P - 4H - now what? Are you going to bid 4S or 5C? An opening 2C bid may shut the opponents up. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/988 "2019-02-27T19:42:41Z")
I don’t know what your 2C followed by 3C means. Does 2C show clubs? I want to tell partner I have clubs and spades, and I want to do that ASAP. I’ll start by bidding my longer suit naturally. ETA: IIRC many pairs have a system for interfering over 2C (e.g. a system to show 2-suiters). Opening an artificial 2C _encourages_ these pairs to obstruct. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/989 "2019-02-27T22:39:22Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Has someone been tampering with all the shuffling machines? (Or maybe we really have passed through a membrane into an alternate reality.) > I’ll bid 2H if that’s strong and artificial and then 3S over 3D if that’s forcing. That you ask us makes me suspect partner did have an Ace, but how can I try for it without a big risk of playing 5S down 1? Partner had next to nowt - void - 4-5-4 [clubs meant 4S makes despite a 2-5 spade split]. That wasn’t the problem, though - it was passing me out after 2D - 3S. I stood up to try and defenestrate him, but he’s a big bloke and we were playing on the ground floor, so it hardly seemed worth it. Looking at it with a calmer head I can see I’ve given him an unplatable choice but he can’t pass there IMO after double and jump bid. Only 6imps lost (non vuln) - wasn’t the worst score of the night. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/990 "2019-02-27T22:54:43Z")
> [@Busy\_Scissors](#): > > PIcked up a rock-crusher in a teams match last night - > > AKQJxx > Kx > K > AKQx > > Bidding opened 1H on your left, pass pass to you. How would you handle this beast? If you double it will go pass and then 2D by partner back to you. Double then bid 4S. This shows a mountain, as opposed to 4S immediately, which would be a ton of playing tricks but not so many values. It is just about conceivable that you have slam on, if LHO has opened on 11 and partner has an ace, but a) that is very unlikely, b) if it is AD you need to get to it (10S?), and c) you still might have a club loser. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/991 "2019-02-27T23:04:21Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > This hand is from the current Bronze level bidding contest: > > ♠ AK532 > ❤ 5 > ♦ - > ♣ AQT8643 > > You are not vulnerable and playing pairs. > > The quiz asks a different question about this hand, but my question is, how would you open this hand? How would you plan the bidding? Open 1C and bid spades at my next turn, even if that means bidding 4S. 1C is not going to be passed out. Yes, opponents might preempt you but if you open 2C you preempt yourself. 2C - 2D - 3C - 3NT oops. Now we have to bid 4S to show our hand in an uncontested auction. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/992 "2019-02-27T23:08:37Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > Open 1C and bid spades at my next turn, even if that means bidding 4S. 1C is not going to be passed out. Yes, opponents might preempt you but if you open 2C you preempt yourself. 2C - 2D - 3C - 3NT oops. Now we have to bid 4S to show our hand in an uncontested auction. If partner bids 3N we don’t want to be in 4S. If partner has a poor hand she’ll pass 3C (it’s a Devalued 2C, remember, so passing is allowed). ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/993 "2019-02-27T23:20:11Z")
And now for what could be a record. Has anyone else ever gone 7-down on the last board on two successive weeks? Last Wednesday my partner opened 1S. I bid 4S, preemptive, with a weak hand with 5 spades. Nevertheless, he wheeled out RKCB. Disappointed with my 5D response (0 or 3 key cards), he decided we did not have slam on and… passed. RHO declined my request to lead out of turn so I could choose the option of making partner play it. So I decided I did not want to play it out and offered 6 down. RHO refused so I upped (lowered?) the ante to 7 down and she accepted. A zero is a zero. Today I held AQJ10xxx Axx Qx x. RHO opened 1D. I bid 1S, 2C from lefty, 2S from partner and 3C on my right. At this point a 3S bid is purely competitive but I wanted to make a game try - only 3D and 3H were available. I chose 3H to show where my values were and everybody passed. Partner had Kxx Qxxx xxx xxx. I tried for a heart layout of Kxx onside, in which case I would go down one and tie everyone in 4S. When they were 4-2 offside, opponents drew trumps and cashed out. Surprisingly, this was not a zero - we got 12% I could have held it to 4 down and got 25% ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/994 "2019-02-27T23:23:16Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > If partner bids 3N we don’t want to be in 4S. If partner has a poor hand she’ll pass 3C (it’s a Devalued 2C, remember, so passing is allowed). I have not heard of the Devalued 2C. I assume it was invented after I stopped playing in the UK (1986). I was answering as if 2C had the original Acol meaning or the strong 2C from Standard American/2 over 1. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/995 "2019-02-27T23:38:36Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > Last Wednesday my partner opened 1S. I bid 4S, preemptive, with a weak hand with 5 spades. Nevertheless, he wheeled out RKCB. Disappointed with my 5D response (0 or 3 key cards), he decided we did not have slam on and… passed. Ouch. I had something similar happen to me. I think I mentioned it upthread, but after my initial pass, partner opened 1 of a major and I splintered with 4C. She bid 4N and I bid 5C - no aces. She passed. We played in a 2-1 fit. > [@](#): > > Today I held AQJ10xxx Axx Qx x. RHO opened 1D. I bid 1S, 2C from lefty, 2S from partner and 3C on my right. At this point a 3S bid is purely competitive but I wanted to make a game try - only 3D and 3H were available. I chose 3H to show where my values were and everybody passed. Oh dear, but this time partner can be said to be showing suit preference. Surely you can bid straight to 4 on that hand? You have seven spades and partner has shown three so you have ten between you. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/996 "2019-02-28T04:10:43Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Oh dear, but this time partner can be said to be showing suit preference. Surely you can bid straight to 4 on that hand? You have seven spades and partner has shown three so you have ten between you. Assuming you are referring to the Law of Total Tricks, it tends to break down the higher you get. On this hand, if you bid 4S and they don’t double, you get an average. If they double, you get a near bottom for -300. If you can stop in 3S, you get a near top. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/997 "2019-02-28T04:41:06Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Ouch. I had something similar happen to me. I think I mentioned it upthread, but after my initial pass, partner opened 1 of a major and I splintered with 4C. She bid 4N and I bid 5C - no aces. She passed. We played in a 2-1 fit. I’ve twice played in a 2-0 fit. Once was a Splinter to 4H after a 1S opening and partner passed. The other time was a pass of a 4H Texas Transfer. Ahh well. The best thing that happened the other way was when I opened 2C (artificial strong) and partner responded 2H (controls showing one A or two Ks). I alerted and bid 4H. Even though I alerted partner said “failure to alert” and explained his bid. I chuckled and said, I did alert, but don’t worry I have good support for your hearts. After the opening lead I put down x AKQJTxxx xx Ax Best support of a trump suit I’ve ever put down ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/998 "2019-02-28T06:14:21Z")
I’ve never thought doubling then jumping was a force. Especially if (a) the double was in the balancing (pass-out) position; (b) a strong cue-bid was available on the first round. Doubler may bid on the assumption that partner has about 3 hcp. If partner has zero instead, he’ll think 3S is already too high. I’ve told my partner I don’t want to play Michaels Q anymore. Instead I want to be able to bid without ambiguity on very big hands. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/999 "2019-02-28T11:35:50Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > I have not heard of the Devalued 2C. Think of it as a limited form of Benji. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/1000 "2019-02-28T13:17:25Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’ve never thought doubling then jumping was a force. Especially if > (a) the double was in the balancing (pass-out) position; > (b) a strong cue-bid was available on the first round. > Doubler may bid on the assumption that partner has about 3 hcp. If partner has zero instead, he’ll think 3S is already too high. > > I’ve told my partner I don’t want to play Michaels Q anymore. Instead I want to be able to bid without ambiguity on very big hands. Think Michaels (and a lot of other conventions) only works if you’re in a partnership that is prepared to sit down and discuss detailed follow-ups. Certainly just agreeing something like Michaels, split range, and that’s it will cause more problems than it solves. That’s a problem for me at the minute - my main partner has great fundamentals but basically no interest in detailed bidding agreements, but I do. So we may have to go our separate ways [not talking about a complex system, more a simple system that is very deeply understood]. It’s not even about playing better bridge for me, more that I’d find it interesting and keeps the game fresh. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/1001 "2019-02-28T13:27:55Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’ve never thought doubling then jumping was a force. It isn’t, generally. I say “generally” because of course you and your partner can agree whatever you want. ---
**Author:** ![merrick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@merrick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/merrick)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2019, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229/1002 "2019-03-04T19:05:18Z")
Since we seem to be talking about big hands, I ran into one today that was the biggest I’ve see in a while. Second in hand, even vulnerability, you pick up S:AJx H:AKQJ D:KJxx C:AK Unfortunately, just as you’re contemplating your rebid after 2C-2D, dealer pre-empts with 3C. Now what? (If you double, partner bids 3D) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229.md?page=49) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-7-no-trumps-baby/762229.md?page=51)