It’s unlikely to be a complete misfit Dead Cat - pard’s 2N is probably a weak NT sort of hand with 3 or fewer spades. He’ll have some minor suit cards for you, and you own 32 / 33 hcp of the deck.
Fair enough - but I maintain that describing my hand as I suggested is a decent way forward, given that the bidding isn’t going to stop after my 4D, I’ll probably be able to bid again to indicate my strength. Best case, partner cue bids 4H showing the ace, I reply with 5C, then if partner has first round control in spades (which my bidding has denied) they can bid on and we should reach a good slam. If they don’t they can sign off in either 5C or 5D which again I would expect to be a good contract. Worst case, partner signs off in 5D (over my 4D) without exploring the possible slam, but that would be a weak bid (maybe they opened light).
Marks out of 10?
Decent Dead Cat - it’s a bit unclear though I would say, as you’re at the 5 level and still haven’t agreed a fit or really communicated our strength. The risk is that from our POV, we’re looking at our v strong hand and thinking we’re in charge and we’ll just bid 6C or 6D according to controls, but pard looking at a bit of a non-descript 13 might be reluctant to go past game and cue bid a spade ace even if he has it, so could pass us out. They would need to take 4D as almost a slam force which it isn’t really.
Anyhow, it was a better effort than mine, which was to launch an agricultural 6C over 3N 
Unfortunately pard had magic cards for me - something like AJ ATxxx, Qxx, Kxx so 7 was cold (although it was a push board). Think I needed to know about the QD for 7 to be bid with confidence, which I don’t think I could find in the bidding.
Over partner’s 2N I would be very tempted to jump to 4D. This shows points as well as distribution.
Yes I think that might have been better Quartz. Normally in a 2/1 auction you take things slow because the force is established, but here I think that should show a big two suiter, no interest in 3N. Pard’s then on the same page that we’re driving to slam.
That hand looks like a bit of a problem if you play RKCB, doesn’t it? After your 4D bid partner’s next step is 4N and you have to guess the trump suit. Do you have 3 aces or 2 and the Queen? No problem with ordinary Blackwood: partner passes 5C, raises 5D to 6C, and bids 7C over your 5H.
Another vote for 4H (or NAMYATS, if you play it).
I bid 3D then 4D. We have reached the same point but I have definitively shown at least 5 diamonds and 6 clubs.
The way I play, 4NT would be natural as there is no agreed trump suit. I don’t see a way to use RKCB as you cannot agree trumps. I wonder what 4S from partner means? It has to be a cue bid, but what are trumps?
On reflection, it might be better to ignore the diamonds altogether. Partner will have at least 2 clubs for the 2NT bid and your clubs are good enough to play for one loser at worst. So 1H - 2C - 2NT - 3C. If partner now bids anything other than 3NT, that should be control showing with club support. If partner bids 3NT, persist with 4C to try get a cue bid.
There is a question of what 2NT shows. There are two common treatments in 2/1, assuming you also play 15-17 1NT opening:
- 12-14 or 18-19 (you bid 3NT with 15-17). With the latter, you bid again if partner raises to 3NT.
- 12-14. You bid 3NT with 18-19 and ignore 15-17 because you would have opened 1NT.
Either way, opener has a maximum 12-14 with KC and 2 aces and should cooperate in slam tries.
A further wrinkle: I play that the 2NT guarantees a stop in the unbid suits. Without that, you bid 2D which means “either diamonds or I don’t have a suit stopped”. The 2NT bid strongly implies QD, which makes it easier to get to the grand.
But you haven’t shown your high point count.
Ah, the way I play (as taught by a Scottish International) is that a NT limit rebid need only contain a singleton honour in partner’s suit.
Under your bidding system opener might have had S: Qxx and so only one ace.
How would you imagine the bidding sequence after an opening 1N (12-14)? Something like 1N - 3C - 3H - 4D - then what?
I’m unfamiliar with the “agricultural 6C” but if you’re showing a huge hand with clubs and diamonds, partner should know his hand is magic. (One of his Aces could have been a useless Queen.)
You don’t jump around playing 2/1 unless you have a very specific meaning (a splinter, for example). The whole idea of 2/1 is that you set a game force at a low level to allow you to explore fits and describe your hand without having to jump.
Plus I am not terribly interested in showing my points. This is a hand where I want to know about partner’s hand.
In general I am fine with that. After 1x - 1y I am happy to rebid 1NT with a singleton honour. But in a 2/1 sequence there is no need. If you have a singleton, then either you have a 6-card suit, shown by a rebid, or you have another 4+ card suit you can show, or you have support for partner. Actually, on this hand I would be delighted for partner to bid NT with a singleton honor, because that is the king. That strengthens my argument for forgetting about diamonds and focusing on the club slam.
I was describing what opener actually had and that with that hand, he would happily cooperate in slam tries.
Very dependent on your system. I play 3C to mean different things with three different partners, none of which are the same as the meaning I think you are using. If you are using 3C to be a strong hand with long clubs, I think opener’s next rebid should indicate a liking or otherwise for clubs. 3H would not be natural, but would say “I like clubs and have a heart control and no diamond control”. Without support for clubs, you just rebid 3NT. Over 3H, the bidding can continue 3S (1st or 2nd round control, and an implied diamond control - no point continuing the slam try without one as opener has denied one), 4S (1st or 2nd round control). Responder now knows that slam is cold or very good (don’t know if the heart control is ace or king). We can find out through RKCB whether it is AH or KH.
We cannot find out about QD, but can at least try for the magic hand of AS, AKH, KC, in whch case all the little diamonds can be discarded as long as partner is not AK doubleton heart. We can follow up with 5NT as long as your responses are either specific kings, or omit the king of trumps. That way 6C shows zero and can be passed.
Of the systems I play, the one that works best on this hand is 1NT - 3D shows a strong minor 2-suiter. Opener now knows that his had is absolute gold. Aces covering both majors and honors in both minors.
Another teams match last night, another loss - we need a Sam Allardyce-like appointment to arrest our slide into the cellar I fear.
One that went begging (along similar lines to ones posted in this thread recently - minor suit slams)
S Kxx
H KQxxx
D void
C KJxxxx
No opps bidding, it goes 1D by pard, 1H
2N (showing 18-19 balanced, could have a 4cM). 3c from you is new minor forcing, not alerted as pard always forgets that over 2N
3D, 3S (decided to show the spade fragment / stopper)
3N, ?
Tanked a bit and decided with no obvious fit, 30 pts but a void in pard’s suit it was better to let it go. Agree with this?
Despite his forgetting NMF he probably would still have bid 3H if he had 3, so he likely doesn’t. We could have a club fit though…
My pard’s having a tough time of it atm. He’s fine in the rhythm of the game - play or defence of the hand and his judgement is absolutely spot on. But he revokes / leads out of turn / has a sticky card at least once per session, forgets conventions frequently and is incapable of learning new ones, doesn’t alert / delays alerts all the time etc. Don’t mind down the club but it is aggravating in league play - what can you say though? Just hope it is not symptomatic of anything more serious and is general forgetfulness (he’s in his mid-60s).
That’s 14 cards. Was it just a 5-card club suit?
You are not allowed to infer anything from the failure to alert, so you must assume he has 2 hearts and fewer than 4 spades. The 3D bid means you have a club fit (he is 3253 at worst). I think it is worth 4C over 3D, especially playing teams. At matchpoints you would be nervous about playing in 5C rather than 3NT, but at teams you are only risking an IMP or two.
Sry, yes it was 5-5 in the rounded suits.
Tough part of the game, minor suit slams.
3C is natural and forcing, right? Is it clear this needs to be alerted? Surely after the NT jump, forcing is more popular than non-forcing, no?
In the absence of any special system, passing 3N may be best, but what if you had a way to show the Diamond void, and implicitly ask partner how much he has wasted in that suit?
1D 1H
2N 3C
3D 3S
3N 5C ?
Any bid over 3NT will be forcing to game and retroactively (perhaps) turn the 3S into some sort of slam try. Since 4C would be forcing, what does the jump to 5C mean? A distributional hand, prob. 3-5-0-5 (or possibly 4405 or 4504) but in any event, it might guarantee a diamond void.
Of course that often gets you to 5C down 1, instead of 3NT making. Maybe a special convention is needed to show game-force with void in partner’s suit immediately. :eek:
New minor forcing over 2N would be conventional for us - asking for 3 card support of my major or four of the other, saying nothing about the minor. Very standard to play this (or a variant) in a 5cM, strong NT system over a 1NT rebid, and I think over 2N as well it’s pretty normal.
I think the void in pard’s suit was what turned me off slam more than anything, if a finesse was needed to set up his diamonds. In the event his diamonds were rock solid.
:smack: We call this Checkback Stayman.
Similar, but not quite the same. The main different is that after 1C - 1H/S - 1NT (or 2NT), Checkback Stayman is invoked via 2C whereas New Minor Forcing requires a 2D bid.
I would interpret this as partner not having 4+ spades. Partner is likely 5-3-3-2.
If I’ve followed things correctly, 3S should be 4th suit forcing, so 3N says that I do indeed have half a stop.
Pass. Remember that half the point of all these conventions is to stop you getting into a bad contract.