# Bridge collapse in Baltimore {2024-03-26} **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [March 26, 2024, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372 "2024-03-26T08:11:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/221 "2024-03-27T19:43:41Z")
That sounds as horrible as it would be critical. Thanks for sharing that one. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/222 "2024-03-27T19:43:59Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I wonder why this ship (or presumably all ships) leaving this harbor in Baltimore do not have a tug boat escort. Articles online say that at Baltimore, a tug is used just when mooring or just getting underway. I can’t speak to whether that’s standard practice in other ports. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/223 "2024-03-27T20:02:11Z")
I was surprised to read somewhere that the Key Bridge only carries about 31,000 vehicles a day. I did some digging, and not surprisingly the majority of traffic goes through the tunnels (Fort McHenry carries 111,000 a day and the Harbor Tunnel carries 63000). Both of those are slightly more direct, though we’ve taken the Key a time or two in the past when traffic was expected to be really bad. Larger trucks, and hazmat vehicles, cannot use the tunnels, so they’ll have a detour around the western side of Baltimore. Assuming 2/3 of the traffic from the bridge now goes through the tunnel, that’s another 10,000 vehicles a day in each. It’s doable; I do not know if that will tip those over from “crowded but moving” to “crawling”. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/224 "2024-03-27T22:35:47Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > There is no way one could turn the rudder on such a huge ship manually. That’s not the question. The ship has one large diesel for propulsion and 4 diesel generators of which 2 are reserve. You see the lights turn on and off which shows electrical issues but that doesn’t affect propulsion. the question is what is driving the rudder. If it’s electrical there should be backup battery and if it’s hydraulic there there should be reserve pressure vessels. “Loss of Power” is a generic term being thrown around due to the lights going on and off. That would have nothing to do with propulsion. The diesel engine driving the propellors is going to have MASSIVE rotating mass and is not going to shut down quickly. The 4 possible generators are going to bridge the gap for electrical failures. They’re talking about “dirty” fuel but I would find that highly unlikely because it would have to pass through a filtering system. The ship has a single bow thruster of 5000 hp but they’re generally only useful at very low speeds. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/225 "2024-03-27T22:46:56Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > I was surprised to read somewhere that the Key Bridge only carries about 31,000 vehicles a day. That number is the average number if you divide total traffic in a year by 365. I would imaging it varies significantly between weekend and weekday. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/226 "2024-03-27T23:02:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That number is the average number if you divide total traffic in a year by 365. I would imaging it varies significantly between weekend and weekday For comparison, the average daily traffic on I-405 going past LAX is greater than 300,000 vehicles a day. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/227 "2024-03-27T23:23:10Z")
Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/228 "2024-03-28T04:39:01Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I am really curious on what failed in the ship. With the Queen of Oak Bay, the point of failure was a cotter pin. CBC describes this pin as “tiny” and I found a post on another forum that said the pin in question was 3cm (about an inch). Lack of that pin led to a cascade of failure that I am pretty sure there was no way to prevent once it was in motion (other than using the marina as an emergency brake). I don’t know that anything similar happened here but the point of failure that leads to an out-of-control vessel can be something as small as a pin. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/229 "2024-03-28T06:32:26Z")
For want of a pin, a bridge was lost. ---
**Author:** ![2gigch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2gigch1/32/3313_2.png) [@2gigch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2gigch1)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/230 "2024-03-28T07:10:51Z")
The bridge is the jurisdiction of MTAP, MD Transportation Authority Police not MSP, so they’re more likely to monitor maritime radio traffic in dispatch than say the Golden Ring barracks who control Baltimore County MSP or JFK up in Perryville who operate I95 patrol MSP officers north of Baltimore. Their Key Bridge station is located at the end of Broening Highway at the north end of the bridge. Or conceivably USCG Baltimore could have hotlined MTAP knowing the proximity to the bridge which would also account for a Mayday being issued several minutes before collision but MTAP only hearing about it with much less time. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/231 "2024-03-28T11:17:07Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The ship has one large diesel for propulsion and 4 diesel generators of which 2 are reserve. You see the lights turn on and off which shows electrical issues but that doesn’t affect propulsion. the question is what is driving the rudder. If it’s electrical there should be backup battery and if it’s hydraulic there there should be reserve pressure vessels. Thank you for that information. However, that begs the question, why couldn’t they steer their way through? > [@Magiver](#): > > They’re talking about “dirty” fuel but I would find that highly unlikely because it would have to pass through a filtering system. Even with my meager knowledge, common sense dictates to me that you are correct. I mean, the thing traversed the entire ocean without incident. So, after a journey of thousands of miles without a problem, the fuel suddenly got “dirty” at that key moment? Well, unlike an airplane disaster where the machine in question is in thousands of pieces, the freighter is entirely intact. They should be able to determine the cause for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/232 "2024-03-28T12:01:11Z")
One thing is for sure: it would never have happened if trump was president. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/233 "2024-03-28T12:06:05Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Even with my meager knowledge, common sense dictates to me that you are correct. I mean, the thing traversed the entire ocean without incident. So, after a journey of thousands of miles without a problem, the fuel suddenly got “dirty” at that key moment? IIRC, the Dali was on its way _out_ of the harbor where they had been docked for several days, meaning: they theoretically could have filled up their fuel tanks while they were in port. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/234 "2024-03-28T12:11:13Z")
[Bodies of 2 of the missing were found.](https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/community/transportation/baltimore-bridge-collapse-bodies-found-EI2DYQFAFVEZ5GUCEJHT5GUZBA/). I believe I read elsewhere that they were found inside their truck. Sounded like extremely poor visibility for the divers. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/235 "2024-03-28T12:11:44Z")
Oops! You’re right! If I may interject a question: If a huge freighter like that breaks down in the open ocean, do they have their own version of “AAA” that will come to their aid, or are they capable of doing pretty much all of their repairs themselves? I can’t imagine towing something that huge, but maybe it’s possible. ---
**Author:** ![andrewm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c57346/32.png) [@andrewm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andrewm)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/236 "2024-03-28T12:44:02Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > They’re talking about “dirty” fuel but I would find that highly unlikely because it would have to pass through a filtering system. If there’s enough of right sort of bad stuff in the fuel, it’ll clog the filters so that none of the good portion of the fuel supply can reach the engine. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/237 "2024-03-28T12:44:15Z")
**Moderator Note** > [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > One thing is for sure: it would never have happened if trump was president. I get that this is a joke (and personally I thought it was funny) but we do have a rule against political jabs in Breaking News threads, joke or otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/238 "2024-03-28T13:43:21Z")
I’m wondering if this incident is more like a toddler knocking over a card table or smashing through some legos. Has anyone seen an estimate of the mass of the tower that was struck? I’ve seen the estimates of the freighter _Dali_ being on the order of 100,000 tons. Anyone have a more precise gross tonnage? But I’d also like to know the mass of the tower, including the underwater portion. My eyeballs say the tower is going to be less massive than the ship, since the tower is shorter than the ship. Can anyone do a better estimate? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/239 "2024-03-28T13:45:39Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > do they have their own version of “AAA” that will come to their aid, For recreational boaters, there is a marine AAA in areas with lots of boats. You pay a yearly fee and when you contact them with trouble, you get to pay them even more for a tow. For huge commercial vessels the company is going to have their own response team. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/240 "2024-03-28T13:50:41Z")
It looks to me like the protection for the pier and abutment was woefully inadequate for the type of marine traffic that regularly passes under the bridge. I suppose that will be something an enquiry will want to examine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372.md?page=13)