# Bridge collapse in Baltimore {2024-03-26} **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [March 26, 2024, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372 "2024-03-26T08:11:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/261 "2024-03-28T21:40:35Z")
The unfortunate part of this is that maintenance folks would be guaranteed to be on that bridge, either standing while working or sitting in stationary trucks, and possibly without radio contact with the port authority. (Since they were a contracted crew.) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/262 "2024-03-28T21:54:41Z")
> [@Jim1](#): > > The ship is large intact and easily returned to port. It takes way more than a bridge to take out a ship like that. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/263 "2024-03-28T21:58:51Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > I live near there. The Columbia River bar, the crossing from the ocean into the river, is also known as the graveyard of the Pacific. So… It’s a Wet Bar? (Could not resist. You said Columbia River bar, and I thought of a different type of bar) ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/264 "2024-03-28T22:09:56Z")
While what you’re saying makes perfect sense, I’d have to wonder how frequently – particularly in a port area that probably works three shifts – there’s _no_ traffic on that bridge at all. Aren’t we still being told that the only souls lost or missing _from on_ the bridge _were_ the construction workers? If so, then … if they closed one direction at a time, allowing traffic to pass at intervals in the remaining lanes, I wonder how frequently X amount of time would pass in the wee hours of a Tuesday morning without a single car being on its entire 1.6 mile span. The fact that we have **[dispatch reports](https://www.wbaltv.com/article/dispatch-audio-key-bridge-collapse-sheds-light-timeline-incident/60319457)** that sought to close the bridge entirely supports your comment, but I still wonder… They may have been even more fortunate than I was supposing if this really happened at a time when the bridge _was_ partially open for traffic _and still_ had no non-worker casualties. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/265 "2024-03-28T22:23:42Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > If so, then … if they closed one direction at a time, allowing traffic to pass at intervals in the remaining lanes… According to Google Maps aerial photos, there were two lanes of traffic in each direction. The traffic control for the planned pothole repairs would have maintained at least one lane of traffic in each direction at all times. You would never do alternating one-way traffic on a bridge like that for something as simple as pothole repairs. Forgive my misunderstanding if you were not implying that. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/266 "2024-03-28T22:31:57Z")
For me, it was less about _how_ the road repair crew would have implemented traffic control on this fateful night and more about whether or not the bridge was actually open _to_ traffic … plus or minus any traffic control they’d have been subject to. I was just thinking that a total closure to effect bridge repair would have been incredible good fortune, but a re-route that still allowed cars to pass on the bridge at the time of the disaster – if there were NO cars passing – would be nigh unto miraculous. In either case, I’m still under the impression that there were no ‘civilians’ on the bridge when the M/V Dali hit it. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_the\_Turtle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_the_turtle/32/2926_2.png) [@Fear\_the\_Turtle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_the_Turtle)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/267 "2024-03-28T22:44:59Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > To be fair, the bridge was generally not used by people travelling through (from north of Baltimore to south of the city), except for some truck traffic; the tunnels are 5+ miles shorter Back in the day I used to a have a commute (south to northeast) where I could take either the bridge or one of the tunnels. I almost always chose the tunnel as it was much quicker/shorter. The bridge was more scenic though, if I had some extra time to kill. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/268 "2024-03-28T22:50:24Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > For me, it was less about _how_ the road repair crew would have implemented traffic control on this fateful night and more about whether or not the bridge was actually open _to_ traffic … plus or minus any traffic control they’d have been subject to. > > I was just thinking that a total closure to effect bridge repair would have been incredible good fortune, but a re-route that still allowed cars to pass on the bridge at the time of the disaster – if there were NO cars passing – would be nigh unto miraculous. > > In either case, I’m still under the impression that there were no ‘civilians’ on the bridge when the M/V Dali hit it. From everything I’ve heard and seen, the bridge was _not_ completely closed to traffic, or the police would not have worried about closing the bridge to traffic in the seconds between the “mayday” call and the bridge collapse. Also, videos actually showed traffic on the bridge seconds before the ship hit the bridge. Instead, the first orders from the police over the radio was to immediately shut down the bridge to traffic, followed by a call to get the maintenance crew off the bridge. The first order evidently succeeded, which undoubtedly saved lives. There was evidently no time to get the bridge maintenance crew off in time, though. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/269 "2024-03-28T22:58:25Z")
> [@robby](#): > > From everything I’ve heard and seen, the bridge was _not_ completely closed to traffic… > > \< snip \> > > Also, videos actually showed traffic on the bridge seconds before the ship hit the bridge. There is definitely traffic crossing the bridge prior to the accident. The traffic can [clearly be seen in video of the bridge before the accident](https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnewsvideo/comments/1bo2j0r/baltimore_bridge_collapse_sped_up/) (with the ship headed towards it). Were they able to stop traffic after the pilot’s mayday call? I do not know (traffic does seem to lessen and I see no obvious signs of a car/truck on the bridge when it collapsed but whether that was just good fortune or a closed bridge I have no idea). ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/270 "2024-03-28T23:35:18Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Were they able to stop traffic after the pilot’s mayday call? They did, maybe seconds before the bridge went down. Recordings have been released of the conversations between law enforcement and dispatchers, including the report by one in the middle that the bridge had just fallen. Right before the announcement of the bridge going down, one guy indicates he has the one side shut down and they’re talking about getting the emergency crews out. When the announcement comes the bridge has fallen, that one guy on the secured end agitatedly says somebody needs to contact the agency on the other side to shut down the other end, then a different guy from that agency chimes in that he already has it secured. So it looks like both sides were closed to traffic just before the ship hit. Remarkably efficient, remarkably lucky or both. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/271 "2024-03-28T23:48:43Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > if this really happened at a time when the bridge _was_ partially open for traffic From the video it appears that a tractor-trailer and two passenger cars went across from right to left, and no traffic crossed in the other direction. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/272 "2024-03-28T23:51:07Z")
If only one lane of traffic was open in either direction then shutting down traffic could have been as simple as just parking a vehicle in that lane at the entrance to the span. It wouldn’t take long at all. I’m guessing that from time to time one has to block off a lane or two of traffic in the event of an accident on the bridge, just as any other road. The notion and technique isn’t that novel. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/273 "2024-03-28T23:51:19Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > It takes way more than a bridge to take out a ship like that. James Brown? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/274 "2024-03-28T23:56:41Z")
What I find remarkable is that they were able to shut down the bridge with (max) five minutes of notice (and likely less time) at 1:30a. Whoever was working that night were really responsive and/or they just have a very robust system in place for such events. Either way it seems everything for once worked about as well as one could hope for in a bad situation. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2024, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/275 "2024-03-29T01:25:15Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > If this is the case, then – within a relatively unimaginable tragedy – this is even more fortuitous than we knew. It speaks to the fact that the body count could only have been higher if a temporarily closed thoroughfare had been open instead. From videos, there were some vehicles crossing it in the minutes before the impact. Typically, this kind of road maintenance involves closure of of one or more lanes, with at least one lane open in each direction. I’m not sure how many lanes the Key Bridge had, but if it had 6 (3 in each), then 1 or perhaps 2 lanes would have been closed. That’s what I’ve seen on major roadways in the DC / Baltimore area in the past. There would have been police presence as well for any such maintenance. It gives me the shakes to think what would have happened if this had occurred 4 or 5 hours later in the day. The crews would have been gone or packing up, more lanes would have been open, and of course more traffic because it was daytime. Kudos to the police for reacting so quickly and totally closing the bridge - it’s stunning that they were able to do so in time for all other vehicles to get clear. > **[Radio Chatter Reveals How Officers Quickly Closed Bridge to Traffic](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/27/us/baltimore-key-bridge-mayday-call-radio.html?ugrp=m&unlocked_article_code=1.gU0.v3kW.zslzcwFdN_ML&smid=url-share)** > > Officers immediately moved to keep cars off a bridge in Baltimore after a mayday from the ship that hit it, according to audio from a Maryland Transportation Authority Police channel. Less than 90 seconds from the first request to block it, to the collapse. The bridge was 1.6 miles long. For a car going 60 miles an hour, that’s barely enough time to make it across. I can’t help thinking that there may be one or two unpleasant surprises, as salvage operations continue. For people who don’t recognize the terms “inner loop” and “outer loop”, “inner loop” refers to traffic going clockwise, and “outer loop” refers to traffic going counter-clockwise. The whole area is designated I-695 but the loop reference is clearer than “north” or “east” or whatever, when dealing with a beltway. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2024, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/276 "2024-03-29T01:38:09Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > From the video it appears that a tractor-trailer and two passenger cars went across from right to left, and no traffic crossed in the other direction. I’d seen that video before, but didn’t look that carefully at the traffic. That last vehicle… crossed about 3 seconds before the collapse. The driver was probably congratulating himself / herself for making it on before the road closed… “fucking construction, gonna be late… HOLY SHIT”. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2024, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/277 "2024-03-29T02:22:55Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > I’d seen that video before, but didn’t look that carefully at the traffic. That last vehicle… crossed about 3 seconds before the collapse. The driver was probably congratulating himself / herself for making it on before the road closed… “fucking construction, gonna be late… HOLY SHIT”. A lot of the videos I’ve seen were sped up since the whole video is fairly long. I just watched the real-time version, and thought it was closer to 35 or 40 seconds? ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2024, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/278 "2024-03-29T02:27:56Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > A lot of the videos I’ve seen were sped up since the whole video is fairly long. I just watched the real-time version, and thought it was closer to 35 or 40 seconds? You may be right. Still, imagine being in one of those last couple of vehicles, and realizing what you just dodged. I suspect those drivers went home afterwards and had a hell of a case of the shakes. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2024, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/279 "2024-03-29T03:39:22Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > Still, imagine being in one of those last couple of vehicles, and realizing what you just dodged. I suspect those drivers went home afterwards and had a hell of a case of the shakes. I missed being caught in a bus on the lower deck of the [Cypress Structure Collapse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypress_Street_Viaduct#Loma_Prieta_earthquake) by about twenty minutes (got home just in time for a framed picture to fall on my head). At the time I was young and a bit non-plussed. But twenty minutes is a lot different from the visceral impact of it collapsing behind me. I imagine in that scenario I’d have been in some form of shock. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2024, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/280 "2024-03-29T03:50:47Z")
I was on I-5 today when DOT had just closed all but one lane over the bridge and GPS diverted us onto I-405. > **[Failed bridge joint forces closure of southbound lanes of I-5 in Portland](https://katu.com/news/local/failed-jointed-forces-closure-of-southbound-lanes-i-5-in-portland)** > > The Oregon Department of Transportation closed the southbound lanes of Interstate 5 at 4:45 p.m. today in Portland because of a failed bridge joint.The closure [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372.md?page=15)