# Bridge collapse in Baltimore {2024-03-26} **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [March 26, 2024, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372 "2024-03-26T08:11:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/141 "2024-03-26T18:40:21Z")
A comment left on the follow-on video. Speculative, but … he surely knows a whole lot more about this stuff than I do: > [@](#): > > I’m a marine engineer; here’s my guess at what has happened. > When a ship leaves port there is a requirement to start stand-by generators for the duration of the voyage out. > But sometimes there are other issues, a switch board failure, or auto-control issue and you can lose the lot. it has happened to me a few times over the years. > Everything goes off-line and the main engines shut down automatically because they have no feed pumps for fuel, lube oil and air. > The emergency generator will usually start - a small diesel housed on the upper deck usually behind the bridge. It gives enough power for the nav gear and some ventilation, and enough power to enable the engineers to get the rest of the gear back on-line. > That is probably driving the lights we see come back on but not as many as before. The engineers then go round the engine room and control room and manually switch all the gear back on. That can take some time. > But because of the emergency the engineers in this case would have to make a terrible decision to start the main engines immediately to go emergency full astern possibly without supporting pumps and almost certainly with some engine damage. > Black smoke is always a sign of incomplete combustion. the massive pumps that supply air to the engine room would be off-line and so the engines would be gasping for air. The fuel would burn but without enough air hence the black smoke. > in full-astern mode the rudder would be useless. > I really hope the anchor team got off the foredeck before the bridge came down on top of them. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/142 "2024-03-26T18:41:49Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > So if it crashed due to a power loss, I can only think of three reasons it hit the support: 1) the ship was turning as it was going under the bridge, 2) there was a significant crosswind, or 3) there was a significant cross-current. Do we know if any of these are true? (If none are true, I would assume it would continue going straight after the power loss.) Well, if they _did_ drop an anchor while still making headway, that by itself could cause the bow to pull to one side. Or, if they did put on a large astern bell (try to make the ship go in reverse to slow the ship down), that too could have caused the bow to swing (astern bells make the rudder less effective, as some have speculated may have helped doom _RMS Titanic_). Or, they might have been intending to go straight but, not unlike how you will often make slight adjustments at the wheel of your car even while going down a straight road, the helmsman was making a minor correction just as the ship lost power (and perhaps steering control as well—imagine what would happen if, in addition to your car engine stopping, your steering wheel froze just as you were making a slight adjustment to get back towards the center of your lane: you’d keep drifting that way as you coasted to a stop, keeping in mind ships can’t brake like a car can). Or… who knows. Doubtless there will be an investigation. ETA: If it is in fact a single propeller ship, then there is also a thing called “prop walk” that comes into play. > **[What is Prop Walk? - AB Marine](https://ab-marine.com/knowledge-base-propeller-basics/what-is-prop-walk/)** > > Prop walk occurs when a turning propeller pushes a boat’s stern sideways. A single right-handed fixed propeller will tend to push the stern of a vessel to starboard when going forward and to port when going in reverse. Prop walk affects most... You need to use the rudder to counteract prop walk on a single screw ship. (But, again, even on a twin screw ship with counter-rotating propellers, you will need to make fine adjustments of the rudder to keep going straight, even on a perfect calm). ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/143 "2024-03-26T18:57:05Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > According to the timeline, the first signs of trouble occurred at 1:24AM, and the ship hit the bridge just three minutes later. There’s also mention that someone on the container ship placed an “emergency call” that gave officials time to begin closing the bridge to vehicle traffic. If that’s all true, then I’m really surprised a response could be mustered so quickly. Even if the call was placed at the first sign of trouble, could officials even _begin_ to shut down the bridge in less than three minutes? In this case, the active construction probably made that happen. I’m guessing there were lane restrictions & cones & blocking vehicles already up there. Given word, it would be fairly easy for one vehicle to pull out & block the one remaining lane of open traffic shutting down anyone else from driving over It’s also an interstate bridge - _sidebar rant_ - whenever I’ve seen construx on an interstate, across multiple states, there’s a state trooper sitting in the mix; not sure what they’re doing there; it’s not like I’m going to fly along when I see all of the yellow lights but suddenly slow down for one red & blue vehicle parked behind the cones. Also the construction vehicles are better for the drivers to hit because of the scorpion barriers they have rather than hitting the back of a cop car that doesn’t have that absorption protection. /rant There was most likely a cop sitting in his car just sitting there not doing much. It would have been easy for him to put it in gear & turn into traffic blocking the road; especially if traffic was light at that time of night. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/144 "2024-03-26T19:05:44Z")
This helps! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/145 "2024-03-26T19:15:06Z")
Note that, after the 2007 Minneapolis collapse, “[recovery of deceased victims took over three weeks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-35W_Mississippi_River_bridge)” – and that was considered a smooth-running operation. ---
**Author:** ![3AxisCtrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/ecd19e/32.png) [@3AxisCtrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3AxisCtrl)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/146 "2024-03-26T19:15:43Z")
> [@robby](#): > > … when I was in the U.S. Navy serving on submarines, we always had an escort tug until we were safely out of the channel and in unrestricted waters. I was in the surface Navy. In home port we often had nuclear subs berthed nearby and it was evident that they got _very_ special care (which we never begrudged them). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/147 "2024-03-26T19:21:58Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Everybody watch the video posted by Stranger: it answers several questions that have been posted since. This was the first time I’ve had an opportunity to see a video. I didn’t see at what point it happened, but sometime before the moment of impact the only vehicles on the bridge that I could see were the construction vehicles. I’ll have to look again when I have the chance. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/148 "2024-03-26T19:25:45Z")
That’s what I saw as well. A couple of cars going right to left presumably made it off just in time – unless they were still on a final segment of the bridge when it went down. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/149 "2024-03-26T21:12:33Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > This was the first time I’ve had an opportunity to see a video. I didn’t see at what point it happened, but sometime before the moment of impact **the only vehicles on the bridge that I could see** were the construction vehicles. I’ll have to look again when I have the chance. I’m a night photographer & I shoot a lot of bridges so I have experience in this area. You wouldn’t necessarily see cars on the bridge. Remember, what you are seeing is work _trucks_ (higher than cars) with lightbars on their roof, that are designed to illuminate in all directions. In the video, you can see one of the work trucks lights reflecting on the water as it blinks on/off, that’s because it’s pointing towards the direction of the camera. The majority of a car’s lights are going only forward or rearward, not so much light out to the side; IOW, they’re not so bright. Also, look at this [image](https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2178738,-76.5271518,3a,75y,353.99h,73.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGpSWr_asucKcb7u928JzPw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) from Google maps, The red car’s lights are below the level of the Jersey barriers; you wouldn’t see _any_ lighting from this vehicle or a similar one in the video that was shown. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/150 "2024-03-26T21:18:03Z")
I have seen some but all of the news reports, one question I haven’t seen asked is about the condition of the cargo ship. I know it has sunk, but is it sinking (albeit slowly). Has the structure integrity been compromise. Were there any injuries on the ship? How big is the crew on a cargo ship? ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/151 "2024-03-26T21:21:21Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > But the Chesapeake has always been important to America and Baltimore is where it is for a reason. Yes, I was surprised to learn that my grandmother’s port of entry to the U.S. when she emigrated was Baltimore (my grandfather came later and went through Ellis Island). ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/152 "2024-03-26T21:26:01Z")
Regarding the Cargo ship, it should say "I know it has **NOT** sunk, but is it sinking? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/153 "2024-03-26T21:28:06Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > Also, look at this [image](https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2178738,-76.5271518,3a,75y,353.99h,73.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGpSWr_asucKcb7u928JzPw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) from Google maps, The red car’s lights are below the level of the Jersey barriers; you wouldn’t see _any_ lighting from this vehicle or a similar one in the video that was shown. Is that red car in that image a centipede? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/154 "2024-03-26T21:35:36Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > How many other bridges have this “single point of failure”? All [continuous truss bridges](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_truss_bridge) have the tendency that a failure of a single span will likely cause failures of other spans. This design makes the bridge very resilient to heavy loads on top of the bridge (which is the traditionally agreed-upon way of using bridges), however it’s vulnerable to unexpected loads from the side and beneath, which is what happened here. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/155 "2024-03-26T21:53:59Z")
I realize that there’s a lot more than economic costs, but this does a good job of revisiting what the largest marine disasters have been from that standpoint. > **[Major (re)insurers and P&I club on hook for Baltimore bridge disaster](https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/us/news/marine/major-reinsurers-and-pandi-club-on-hook-for-baltimore-bridge-disaster-482812.aspx)** > > Collapse expected to drive "one of the largest claims" ever for marine market ---
**Author:** ![Eric1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3bc359/32.png) [@Eric1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eric1)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/156 "2024-03-26T22:15:44Z")
I was skeptical about Biden’s plan for the USA to pay for replacement so am glad to read insurance details. The billing for the bridge would otherwise come from me as part of the national debt in the worst case. It can’t imagine the invoices and work orders for building a huge bridge. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/157 "2024-03-26T22:34:36Z")
The bridge [was constructed](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Scott_Key_Bridge_(Baltimore)) between 1972-77. 5 years. I imagine urgency to reopen the port will see the replacement go up quicker. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/158 "2024-03-26T22:45:56Z")
There is greater urgency opening up the port than there is to rebuilding the bridge. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/159 "2024-03-26T22:48:46Z")
I predict a cable-stayed bridge with a main span long enough to get the support piers further from the shipping channel, preferably in shallow water where a large ship will ground itself before hitting the pier. They go up relatively quickly, can have very long main spans, plus are visually appealing. One could be built with minimal impact on shipping traffic. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/160 "2024-03-26T22:49:12Z")
The Baltimore Harbor Tunnel was a primary access route before they built the Key bridge. My family drove through the tunnel several times on trips. The traffic was bad even in 1968. The tunnel will really be grid locked now. Thankfully there are alternate bridges. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372.md?page=9)